The Madness of the Sacred

Speaker 10:08

Are you interested in angels, demons, ghosts, spirits, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, influence, <span data-t="20.

6">and how to protect against the anomaly? If so, then welcome to Southern Demonology, the podcast that explores <span data-t="31.

0">all of this and more.

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Speaker 22:51

And for today's show, we are going to be talking about the concept of would you say <span data-t="176.

9">spiritual psychosis, buddy?

Speaker 12:58

Kind of around that religious psychosis is what most people refer to it as.

Speaker 23:05

I know religious psychosis is not like a clinical term. I think the clinical term for it <span data-t="190.

6">is psychosis. So just want to clarify that's that distinct definition or the difference. So we're kind <span data-t="199.

4">of using it as a popular term because that's just what it's being referred to to discuss some <span data-t="205.

8">of the topics. Well, not topics, to discuss some of the items we want to touch on today. <span data-t="213.

4">With regards to well, we'll stick to spiritual psychosis or religious psychosis. The reason we want to <span data-t="219.

8">talk about this, buddy, is because recently, within the past month or so, there was a trend <span data-t="227.

5">going around all over social media in which a shit ton of people believed the rapture was gonna <span data-t="234.

9">happen for the umpteenth time.

Speaker 13:57

It uh started with a preacher from South Africa who claimed that he had visions, the rapture <span data-t="246.

6">happening September 23rd, and a lot of people like normally there's a small little groundswell of individuals <span data-t="258.

3">who would sit there and claim, yeah, this is the end, this is the end, even though there's <span data-t="264.

2">clearly um a Bible verse that says no man shall know the the date and time, but anyway, <span data-t="271.

8">ignoring that, Christianity has a long history of supporting this, even going back. I think the most <span data-t="279.

2">famous example is of the church dividians from the 1800s who claimed that the apocalypse was about <span data-t="287.

0">to happen, and then of course it didn't, and they kept shoving it off, and now it's just <span data-t="292.

2">a regularly accepted Protestant denomination. But I mean, Christianity is uh not just Christianity, Judaism started off <span data-t="302.

6">this in Second Temple Judaism with the belief that the apocalypse was nigh, and this then infected <span data-t="309.

0">Christianity, and we've been under this delusion for 2,000 plus years now. It's nothing new, but uh <span data-t="316.

9">this one seemed to be gathering even more steam than usual. There were tons of people that were <span data-t="324.

1">selling their house, selling their car, selling their possessions. One woman was claiming that her kids were <span data-t="331.

8">speaking Hebrew all of a sudden, uh just craziness and the fallout that a lot of these <span data-t="340.

0">individuals suffered once, of course, the 23rd came and went, and nothing happened like it was going <span data-t="346.

2">to do, because the rapture doesn't exist. It was epic and sad in proportions.

Speaker 25:52

I agree. I struggle to understand how some folks can get to a certain point where they <span data-t="359.

2">actually think they're just going to be magically teleported. The Bible verse you were referring to was <span data-t="365.

0">it Matthew 7:15, where they say, Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, <span data-t="371.

2">but inwardly they are ravenous wool.

Speaker 16:14

No, though I was talking about another one, but that is equally as valid. That's definitely pointing <span data-t="381.

6">to these individuals that think that they can know the date and time, but like we can discuss <span data-t="389.

9">more about the rapture because I know that's going to be an interesting topic as well.

Speaker 26:34

Yeah, the concept that whole concept, I I just struggle to understand how someone gets to the <span data-t="400.

9">point where they will sell all their belongings and then the day comes and it's like, okay, I <span data-t="407.

8">sold my house, I sold my car, I pulled my kids out of school. What I I always <span data-t="412.

6">I always wonder what that feeling that that looks like the aftermath. Do you feel like a <span data-t="418.

6">complete fucking jackass? And you have to kind of scrape some part of your life back. It's uh <span data-t="426.

9">I I don't understand what the appeal is.

Speaker 17:10

I I don't either, but you get all of these weird things, and it's it's hard to <span data-t="437.

2">for rational individuals with an ounce of self-analytical ability to conceptualize, but we all fall prey to <span data-t="451.

5">it in one way or the other, and I like to think of it like this. I mean, <span data-t="456.

3">I am not a psychologist, we should probably get Mr. Bert in on this conversation at some point, <span data-t="462.

7">who I've had on my show twice now, and he's just phenomenal, and he is a psychiatrist. But <span data-t="470.

2">the way I like to think of it is this we are all metaphysical beings with only one <span data-t="477.

0">viewpoint our own. And unless you subscribe to the theory that you're going to judge yourself as <span data-t="488.

5">harshly as you're going to judge others, then you're willing to give yourself the benefit of the <span data-t="499.

4">doubt, and maybe even you know make excuses for what you have done. But it goes beyond that. <span data-t="506.

0">It's how we acquire knowledge and information, where it's all layers one upon the other. And the <span data-t="518.

6">deeper that foundation goes and that belief goes, the more everything else on top of it reinforces it.

Heidegger would refer to this as historicity, as if your design, your being there, the part of <span data-t="535.

5">your being that can psychoanalyze itself is constantly being thrust forward. And that's how you're evaluating everything <span data-t="546.

8">and every new piece of information that comes into your life. And if you encounter something which <span data-t="554.

4">meshes with those deep foundational issues or core concepts that you hold, then your being will latch <span data-t="564.

4">onto them and it becomes a new biblical truth to you. And this is why you know people <span data-t="572.

8">can easily fall into cults or they can participate in political or religious psychosis because it echoes <span data-t="582.

2">to those foundational concepts in which they have embedded within themselves, and admitting to something higher up <span data-t="592.

4">on that level is wrong is almost akin to going deep down below and invalidating so much of <span data-t="601.

1">your experience, your opinions, and your knowledge that it becomes unfathomable to do so.

Speaker 210:07

So I got a question for you, JJ, and maybe this would help the listeners kind of <span data-t="612.

6">maybe un understand further of like maybe you could go into what the rapture is, where it <span data-t="621.

0">potentially started from, and maybe we can pull back a little bit and explain that for some <span data-t="627.

4">folks that may only have the exposure to those morons on social media that you know, like I <span data-t="634.

2">sold my house, I can't wait till tomorrow. And if tomorrow comes, but I'll I'll stop being a <span data-t="640.

7">dick and go ahead.

Speaker 110:43

It's a lot of fun to be a dick in this kind of situation. I I I am <span data-t="647.

8">right there with you on that one.

Speaker 210:49

But no, it's because you know, it's because I genuinely give a shit. Like it's really shitty <span data-t="655.

7">to see people in bad situations because they get bad advice or they believe in something, and <span data-t="664.

0">then it's like the complete opposite. And you know, the number one thing for people to do in <span data-t="669.

0">that type of situation is be like, ha ha, dumbass. I told you so.

Speaker 111:13

Oh, yeah, you get a good laugh in, but right, right.

Speaker 211:19

Of course, delight in other people's misery, or only only the Germans would have a word for <span data-t="685.

1">that, like Robin Williams say that the Germans have a word for everything.

Speaker 111:29

Oh, it's um the ability for them to name rare psychological events is amazing, and I I <span data-t="699.

1">envy them for that. Yeah, the rapture. It all started with an idiot named Derby or Darby in <span data-t="705.

8">the 1800s, and he misread a biblical quote, and I believe it was an Acts, and he came <span data-t="715.

5">up with this entirely new concept. This that has not existed before the 1800s, and yet so many <span data-t="724.

3">evangelicals have been brainwashed into believing horrible Christian theology just based upon this man's work. That I <span data-t="737.

0">am thoroughly convinced that he has a very special place and a very warm spot for all of <span data-t="745.

1">eternity if that happens. But anyway, that that this is my own vehemence aside. But yeah, it's <span data-t="752.

4">this idea that you are going to be lifted up bodily into heaven. If you go back to <span data-t="758.

7">the Hebrew Bible, there's only one person that, at least according to scripture, did not die, and <span data-t="766.

2">that was Enoch. And all it says is that and he walked with God. Now, Second Temple Judaism, <span data-t="773.

5">a lot of pseudopigraphal works interpret that to being that he was lifted up either in spirit <span data-t="781.

4">or in body, and then served at the right hand of God, in part as judgment or as <span data-t="789.

3">liaison to the watchers, the fallen angels. However, nothing else has ever supported this particular kind of <span data-t="799.

0">idea until Darby came along and came up with this radical concept. You cannot minimize how popular <span data-t="810.

7">this concept is amongst evangelicals, to the point where there have been numerous products that have been <span data-t="819.

4">created in order to help free people from certain situations, such as I'm stuck in a house. How <span data-t="828.

5">am I going to be lifted up into heaven? Oh, there is a there's a company that will <span data-t="833.

8">install a special trapdoor that will allow you to pass through it if that event ever occurs, <span data-t="840.

3">and so you're free to bodily ascend into heaven.

Speaker 214:04

It's amazing how folks can take or misinterpret something and it just morphs into this trend.

Speaker 114:13

And I I will once again reaffirm my stance on this. I don't think it's controversial except <span data-t="861.

4">to evangelicals, but this idea that anybody can pick up a Bible and correctly interpret it is <span data-t="871.

8">horribly, horribly wrong. It takes knowing the sits and leavens, the situation at hand that occurred at <span data-t="881.

0">the time of the writings, it takes a knowledge of the languages that are involved. If you're uh <span data-t="888.

2">simply trying to pick up the King James Version, which is in itself its own special kind of <span data-t="895.

3">special interpretation of what the original text says, then goodness help you. That's all I gotta say.

Speaker 215:03

No, we're all entitled to our own perspective, so I will not disagree with you.

Speaker 115:09

I've got 30 years of um, actually more than that, if you include my time in various <span data-t="916.

3">Protestant churches. But I've got quite a few I was trying to be nice, I'm I'm not going <span data-t="921.

8">to be nice about this. If you want to write me, you want to express your opinion. I <span data-t="926.

2">am more than happy to have the conversation with you, but it would take a lot to convince <span data-t="930.

8">me of this. And I come from a place, I don't think I've ever shared this. I come <span data-t="935.

9">from a place in the south in which there are legends of old timers who couldn't read a <span data-t="944.

6">word, and suddenly they were able to pick up a Bible and read it without a problem. A <span data-t="952.

5">lot of people use these kinds of folk tales to justify not only you know just reading the <span data-t="960.

1">Bible and knowing what it says exactly, but also allowing six-year-olds to get up and preach the <span data-t="967.

3">word of God. These things are dangerous, and I don't care who you are, they are simply too <span data-t="973.

8">dangerous to allow to occur or that belief to keep propagating. You need properly educated religious leaders <span data-t="986.

9">in order to lead a community down the right path. But I will get off my soapbox because <span data-t="994.

6">I know I've said that before.

Speaker 216:38

No, that's fair, and that's how you get into situations where you got people bringing in <span data-t="1005.

4">rattlesnakes and passing them around at church. I ever tell you I I I worked with someone <span data-t="1011.

3">that actually went to somewhere like that against their will. Like they were a kid. And they <span data-t="1019.

6">basically said, like, yeah, like my mom like forced us to go to this church, and they <span data-t="1025.

7">were passing rattlesnakes around. They were like, Thankfully, I didn't hold one.

Speaker 117:11

Thank God, because there are numerous deaths every single year, not just from holding the snakes, <span data-t="1037.

4">but also drinking their poison, and it's just absolutely insane. And that kind of stuff originated in <span data-t="1045.

6">you know, East Tennessee and the Appalachians. So that's right in that's right up your alley, dude. <span data-t="1051.

4">Not in my backyard, but right adjacent to it. So, you know, I'm I mean, right, having <span data-t="1058.

4">faith is a wonderful thing. I'm not trying to minimize that by any stretch of the imagination, <span data-t="1066.

9">but doing things that are antithetical to having a life or preserving your life, I think that <span data-t="1076.

5">falls squarely within the bounds of religious psychosis.

Speaker 218:02

I agree. And on that religious spiritual psychosis, do you recall? I think it was a <span data-t="1089.

2">year ago, it might have been a year ago or a year or two, there was going to <span data-t="1093.

4">be some sort of eclipse, and there was this influencer on Instagram and TikTok that was going <span data-t="1100.

2">nuts, basically saying this is gonna bring about the apocalypse, yada yada yada, all these all these <span data-t="1106.

9">posts, and ended up killing her her spouse and tossing her kids out of like a moving <span data-t="1113.

8">vehicle, and then she ended up dying after crashing her vehicle.

Speaker 118:38

Yep.

Speaker 218:39

And that's something that like I I always just me being who I am, I like to <span data-t="1126.

2">find you'll you'll love this term, the RCA, the root cause. Yeah, yeah. Any tech people listening <span data-t="1134.

6">to this, or you work in tech, you you you'll understand. Trying to find the root cause <span data-t="1139.

1">analysis for something, like what is the catalyst? Like, what started this to get someone to that <span data-t="1145.

5">point where they just vehemently believe all of this shit they're consuming.

Speaker 119:10

Well, I mean, you could point to the same thing for what 2012, when supposedly the <span data-t="1159.

0">Mayan calendar ended.

Speaker 219:21

Oh, right.

Speaker 119:22

Tons of people were sitting there claiming that yes, this was prophesized to be the end <span data-t="1169.

2">of the world, and there's even that horrible Hollywood movie that explored that particular concept. It's funny.

Speaker 219:36

Yeah, I remember that movie. It was so shit. Oh god, oh god.

Speaker 219:40

I remember what I was doing that day. I was just keeping track of time just to see.

Like, I was one of those people that was like, You people are fucking nuts, there's <span data-t="1190.

4">nothing going to happen.

Speaker 119:51

But it still makes you worry. I mean, it's still like uh it's like what if they're <span data-t="1196.

6">right, what if they're right clock in the back of your head, and you go, huh? Especially <span data-t="1202.

5">something that old, there has to be some kind of significance, but there wasn't, of course. Anyway, <span data-t="1209.

8">we're straight, but yeah, what makes someone believe that? I have no idea. I mean, that's honestly <span data-t="1217.

0">a frame of mind that I cannot possibly hope to, nor would I want to hope to <span data-t="1226.

8">emulate or adopt. Because right, I mean, especially to the point where you're willing to sacrifice your <span data-t="1236.

1">family, that goes beyond. I mean, that just speaks to deep psychological harm. I don't know if <span data-t="1245.

6">that's a hatred for self, it's a hatred for life, but there is definitely something going on <span data-t="1251.

5">beyond just pure psychoses.

Speaker 220:54

Agreed. Was there anything additional you wanted to attack on about you know the rapture or <span data-t="1259.

7">anything like that? Because what I wanted to move on to, JJ, is maybe talking about a <span data-t="1266.

2">couple of instances where that shit gets taken very far, like we just mentioned with that influencer, <span data-t="1274.

1">because there's numerous situations where folks get involved in these cults and they end up committing <span data-t="1282.

1">mass suicide, and it's just it's just the same thing.

Speaker 121:28

Yeah, I mean, you've got uh Jim Jones, of course. Yep, uh, you have the branch <span data-t="1294.

4">dividians from Waco, Texas, who stood off in a gunfight with uh federal government over their wacky <span data-t="1303.

4">things.

Speaker 221:44

Was that in the nineties?

Speaker 121:45

Yeah, that was in the nineties.

Speaker 221:47

I was too young to remember that incident, and I think the uh the other one was <span data-t="1312.

0">Heaven's Gate, which we'll get into. Why don't you just talk about what you recall about that <span data-t="1318.

1">that uh incident with uh The branch Dividians.

Speaker 122:01

Yeah, that I think it happened when I was in high school. And luckily, I was involved <span data-t="1330.

4">in extemporaneous speaking, and which requires you to keep abreast of the news, uh, and newspapers and <span data-t="1341.

4">magazines in order to have sources to quote during your speeches, and the speeches could be about <span data-t="1348.

4">anything, who knows what it could be. Um, so we always lugged around tons of magazines and <span data-t="1355.

1">articles in order to memorize the quote as much as you can within a seven-minute speech. But <span data-t="1361.

7">yeah, that that took a lot of people by surprise. There was a cult leader who had <span data-t="1369.

8">some very weird conceptions about marriage and life and uh the boundaries of the government and how <span data-t="1379.

0">people should be able to live their own lives in their communes, and they hold up in <span data-t="1385.

4">Reiko, Texas, in a compound. And when there is a lot of allegations that were coming out <span data-t="1392.

9">against this founder of him being married to numerous women and having numerous children, that's when they <span data-t="1401.

3">decided that things were going a little bit too far, and they had a massive showdown with <span data-t="1407.

9">the government in order to keep them out, and it lasted for weeks, and it took a <span data-t="1414.

2">long time uh in order to bring down. I think they finally killed him, um, the leader <span data-t="1421.

4">of it. But yeah, it was it was a national news sensation.

Speaker 223:45

Yeah, I just do I do recall like bits and pieces of it, but the other one <span data-t="1431.

0">that you mentioned, which I just just baffles me, is with the Jim Jones and his people's <span data-t="1439.

1">temple cult that he ends up forming in the 1950s. Oh, yes, and you know what's interesting <span data-t="1446.

2">about uh the rise of Jim Jones, like before he founded the cult, he was fairly open-minded <span data-t="1453.

8">as a kid. He always went to church, he actually didn't because I I think like his <span data-t="1459.

8">dad was like a a huge racist, and Jim Jones was the complete opposite. He he was <span data-t="1466.

4">like super welcoming, he was open and everything, and then he gets to a point in his <span data-t="1472.

7">developmental years where he starts to gather these followers, he forms his own like people's temple, he's <span data-t="1482.

3">welcoming of everybody, and he starts to present himself as a messianic figure where he combines Christi <span data-t="1493.

1">Christianity and socialist ideals. What's really interesting is that he had like not I don't want to <span data-t="1501.

3">say a direct hand, but he had like people like within government kind of vouch for him <span data-t="1505.

8">in California, like Harvey Milk and and others, which I had no idea that that was the case.

I thought this dude was like just nuts, he gathered a bunch of people because of <span data-t="1518.

6">his charisma, took him down to Guyana, and they just all you know took themselves out because <span data-t="1525.

4">they were nuts.

Speaker 125:26

But there was so much more at play with this guy, which oh yeah, and his followers <span data-t="1532.

6">were absolute well, uh except for the very end, but his followers were fanatical because they believed <span data-t="1541.

4">in this brand new, you know, heaven on earth kind of promise that he uh advocated for. <span data-t="1549.

1">They moved to an entirely different country, uh, was trying to set up a life. There wasn't <span data-t="1556.

8">so many racial divisions that were there. Everyone was welcomed, and on the surface, it seemed like <span data-t="1565.

0">a great thing until everything shit hit the fan. Have you ever seen the documentary about Jonestown?

Speaker 226:14

I think I did, I think it was on Netflix, right?

Speaker 126:17

I believe so. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 226:19

I watched it when it first came out.

Speaker 126:21

I I did too, and some of the images and the stories that they told, they will <span data-t="1589.

4">haunt your dreams. I mean, to how the Kool-Aid was being uh if you're not familiar, at <span data-t="1596.

5">the very end when everything was falling around uh the commune, Jones ordered a certain set of <span data-t="1604.

3">followers that to prepare the special drink which would take them all out, and it was the Kool-Aid.

And of course, if everyone's familiar with the phrase, you know, drinking the Kool-Aid, so the <span data-t="1618.

4">reference to that. But and uh most people uh sat there and drank it, uh or was <span data-t="1627.

3">forced to drink it if they chickened out, uh, to the point where children were being fed <span data-t="1632.

7">to this by their parents before they in turn took it themselves.

Speaker 227:16

Yeah, I read that um even babies they would take like syringes with cyanide and the <span data-t="1642.

2">Kool-Aid and they would like squirt it in their mouth. Yep. And it was just absolutely disgusting. <span data-t="1647.

8">You know what's crazy is that they relocate to Guyana, and Guyana in the 70s, it's not <span data-t="1656.

8">one of those like developed, greatly developed country. Because my like like I said, I'm half Indian, <span data-t="1663.

4">but like my father's grandparents moved from India to Guyana. Oh, really? So they would have been, <span data-t="1671.

7">yeah, my dad would have been in Guyana when this happened.

Speaker 127:55

Holy shit.

Speaker 227:57

Yeah, because I think they like came to the states like probably in like the early 80s, <span data-t="1682.

1">but this happened in I think what year did this happen? I think it was in 78 <span data-t="1687.

1">or 79 or something like that. Because I know a congressman went down there to figure out <span data-t="1692.

2">what the hell was going on, because they heard rumors, you know, that you know they were <span data-t="1696.

9">abusing people, there was sexual abuse, there's was probably pedophilia going on, physical abuse, emotional abuse, <span data-t="1704.

4">which is a common theme with these cults. They all start out in a place like, oh, <span data-t="1709.

7">let's go build this community. Then the cult leader gets this big ass head of air and <span data-t="1715.

0">starts doing the most heinous shit possible.

Speaker 128:37

That's exactly what happened with the people's temple, and then you have almost like YouTube creators <span data-t="1723.

9">that suddenly get a million followers and they start messaging underage girls, and then it comes to <span data-t="1730.

2">light, and they have to apologize. It's just crazy.

Speaker 228:53

Yeah, really quick side note there was this one YouTuber that I used to watch, like in <span data-t="1739.

0">the early days of YouTube. He was a heavier set guy. I don't want to say the <span data-t="1742.

9">name of his handle because I don't want to give him any publicity, but you know, he <span data-t="1747.

7">was he was humble, like his content was fucking hilarious. Then he like became popular and just <span data-t="1754.

3">started doing all this heinous shit. And there's like someone did like an investigative documentary on <span data-t="1760.

4">him, and he like blew all his money on high-class escorts, and it's just it's fucking insane <span data-t="1767.

0">what people do when they get a little sliver of power, and it's it's freaking fascinating.

Speaker 129:35

Power corrupts, and uh yeah, it's constantly proved over and over and over again.

Speaker 229:40

Yeah, even dude, even you and I are not immune for in that shit from that shit, <span data-t="1786.

2">you know.

Speaker 129:46

I I am the ultimate gopher boy, I have no power whatsoever.

Speaker 229:52

Yeah. But you see how we behave in video games, we're playing like a multiplayer game.

Speaker 129:58

Oh, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 230:00

Yeah, you you turn the ultimate dick.

Speaker 130:03

Me, I am I am always so nice and humble in the you like to play games <span data-t="1809.

9">that are akin to.

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Speaker 231:54

Abuse. This motherfucker has me and our other friend playing Elden Ring Night Rain, which is <span data-t="1922.

1">the co-op version of Elden Ring. I have never been so psychologically abused by a game in <span data-t="1928.

8">my life.

Speaker 132:09

That's half the fun for me. Just it isn't you from software version.

Speaker 232:15

You're you are exactly what we're describing here today. You are in a cult of abusive <span data-t="1942.

4">video games. See, that's the cult talking. That's the cult talking.

Speaker 132:29

Oh, yeah, it's it's amazing how many different areas of your life in which your catch <span data-t="1956.

4">yourself just doesn't matter what facts are presented to you, you just cannot get over your belief <span data-t="1967.

0">system in a particular thing. And it takes a lot of self-analyzation in order to snap you <span data-t="1974.

6">out of it. I think that's why you know Maslow's pyramid of needs, you know, the the <span data-t="1982.

2">most basic is you know food, air, and then it begins to to climb up shelter, warmth, etc.

, until you reach the very pinnacle, which is self-actualization or the ability to look at yourself <span data-t="1999.

3">honestly and evaluate your world through that lens. And Maslow said that maybe one half of one <span data-t="2008.

9">percent ever reach that stage. And when I was growing up, I'm like, it can't be true. <span data-t="2015.

6">There has to be more, but the more I look around, especially the more I go around <span data-t="2020.

7">on social media, it's hard to uh to argue that particular statistic, and especially when you're dealing <span data-t="2028.

4">with the exact subject matter that we are now. There are some people that just they believe <span data-t="2034.

4">what they believe, the world is black and white, and there should never be a touch of <span data-t="2040.

2">gray, and then you have those that I think are like us, in which the entire world <span data-t="2046.

4">is just a shade of gray, gray, yeah.

Speaker 234:08

Except when it comes to sports, because I was born and raised a Yankees fan. I'm born <span data-t="2053.

7">and raised in the Bronx. I don't care how good how good Boston is, they'll always fucking suck.

I don't care if they sweep us the entire season and they win the World Series, <span data-t="2063.

0">they fucking suck, and that's the form of it.

Speaker 134:25

I was a Boston, I was a Boston fan back in the Roger Clemens days of pitching, <span data-t="2071.

5">so they can do no wrong.

Speaker 234:33

Kiss my ass. Roger Clemens had a better career with the Yankees, but anyway.

Speaker 134:38

Then again, I don't I don't care about sports one way or the other. At least at <span data-t="2083.

6">least I don't like soccer, I'll put it that way.

Speaker 234:46

Kiss my ass. People literally riot over football.

Speaker 134:52

I know, and I feel so sad for that.

Speaker 234:55

Yeah, yeah, that's that's another thing to you could have a deep dive on on how uh <span data-t="2101.

1">uh football supporters like go fucking nuts. But I think we've diverted long enough. But back to <span data-t="2107.

7">uh Jim Jones, what's crazy about him is this dude had so much fucking power and a <span data-t="2115.

7">head full of air that when Leo Ryan went down there to kind of do investigations and <span data-t="2122.

0">talk to people and stuff, on his way out, Jones had him ambushed and fucking killed. A <span data-t="2128.

6">US representative had his like armed guards kill him and his entourage. And shortly after that, we <span data-t="2136.

0">we all cut already kind of discussed the murder suicide situation with the whole Kool-Aid, and that <span data-t="2141.

8">led to over 900 people dying that day. And Jones ends up killing himself after that. But <span data-t="2148.

5">I I think this situation is kind of like a collect all of like what we've been <span data-t="2154.

8">talking about so far, and then you go into operating like kind of around like it's amazing <span data-t="2162.

3">how these cults like kind of all operated around the same time period. In the 70s, you <span data-t="2167.

4">have the Heaven's Gate, which was started in the 70s, the Heaven's Gate when they got founded.

Speaker 136:13

Oh no, not when they got founded, but when shit hit the fan.

Speaker 236:17

That would oh no, no, no, shit hit the fan in the 90s for them. But I'm <span data-t="2181.

3">saying, like, with Heaven's Gate in general, they started out in the 70s as well with uh Marshall.

What was his face? Apple something, Apple White. I think it was Apple, some I don't remember.

Speaker 136:32

Yes, I I see his face in my head, but that's about it.

Speaker 236:36

Yeah, those like creepy eyes.

Speaker 136:38

Anytime you watch that video, oh my god, it's like a demented keyboard elf.

Speaker 236:45

Yeah, that is a good point. Yeah, so their whole concept is that him and uh Bonnie <span data-t="2212.

4">Nettles, which I I assume is his wife, they combined UFO lore and Christian apocalyptic idea. Apparently, <span data-t="2220.

6">the cult used to watch reruns of Star Trek, which makes me feel uncomfortable because I've I <span data-t="2226.

8">I like Star Trek.

Speaker 137:08

I I don't just like Star Trek, I love Star Trek.

Speaker 237:13

Which one DS9, Voyager, Next Generation, or the original?

Speaker 137:18

Um, I like most of them. I the original, of course, I grew up watching it, but <span data-t="2246.

5">I really love TNG, really love DS9, they're just phenomenal.

Speaker 237:32

Voyager, I would say, is an acquired taste.

Speaker 137:36

I like Voyager as well.

Speaker 237:38

I did not like Enterprise One, no, it was anything after Voyager was just complete ass.

Speaker 137:45

Yeah, um, Discovery's not bad. Strange New World is pretty good. Below Dex actually was really, <span data-t="2273.

1">really funny. I enjoyed that a good bit.

Speaker 237:55

I don't think I ever watched that one, but the others I did, and I wasn't too <span data-t="2278.

6">fond of you. You remind me from Voyager, you're gonna hate me.

Speaker 138:01

If you say Neelix, I'm gonna come because of the screen and beat you.

Speaker 238:05

Yeah, Neelix.

Speaker 138:07

You're on my shit list now officially. I want you to know that we gotta play helldivers <span data-t="2294.

7">just so I can shoot you in the head a few times.

Speaker 238:19

Oh, that's when I'm gonna start calling you. I'm gonna change your your contact on my <span data-t="2304.

2">phone to Neelix.

Speaker 138:25

It's better than one girl. We were at a uh I was meeting a couple of friends <span data-t="2311.

6">of a friend, and she came in and she what's the fat guy from the office that's bald.

Speaker 238:41

Oh my god, oh I know who you're talking about. I Kevin, I think it's Kevin.

Speaker 138:46

Yeah, she was like, Oh my god, it's the spitting image of Kevin.

Speaker 238:50

Oh, that's fucked up.

Speaker 138:52

I wanted a I I I do not advocating for violence, especially against women. That's a the <span data-t="2340.

4">biggest no-no that you could ever commit. I was sorely tempted, and she just continued for the <span data-t="2346.

2">rest of the evening to the point where I just left early. I'm like, no, fuck this shit.

I ain't being called that in front of my face.

Speaker 239:13

Oh, that sucks, dude.

Speaker 139:15

I'm sorry, it wasn't Purdy, I'll put it that way.

Speaker 239:19

All right, so that's enough about the Star Trek talk and all that other fun stuff. We <span data-t="2365.

2">kind of went down a few different rabbit holes today, but can't help but we want to do.

Yep. But back to Heaven's Gates. So some of their core beliefs is that they believed <span data-t="2377.

5">that the earth was going to be recycled and that only those who transcended their human form <span data-t="2384.

0">would survive. And they believe that the only way they could be uh meet salvation was shedding <span data-t="2390.

1">their earthly bodies and joining extraterrestrial beings on a spaceship. And what's interesting about these folks <span data-t="2397.

0">is that they practice extreme discipline, they practice celibacy, communal living, uniform dress, and giving a <span data-t="2405.

0">personal identity to the point where they abandoned their previous names and they gave themselves new names.

And what's interesting about this dude is that these people are not stupid that joined that cult.

No, these were highly skilled individuals. You know how they got their money? No, they were <span data-t="2424.

2">developers just like yourself, they were making websites and developing code during the dot. Yep, that's <span data-t="2431.

8">how they were making their money.

Speaker 140:33

Well, I do know that there was a really well done documentary on them that was put <span data-t="2440.

0">out by NPR a couple of years ago that would I didn't get to catch all of it, <span data-t="2445.

9">but it the part that I did it was really, really interesting.

Speaker 240:50

Yeah, interesting set of people, and I think one of their former members are still around. <span data-t="2457.

8">I think they had a few people that were designated as staying behind to get more people <span data-t="2464.

2">to join. And the one gentleman that left a cult was because he couldn't control, like he <span data-t="2470.

6">said that he couldn't control his like human urges.

Speaker 141:13

Yeah, the main thing that they are remembered for now is wearing the same white tennis <span data-t="2482.

2">shoes and blue jumpsuits, and of course, at the time there was a major comet that was <span data-t="2490.

6">passing by Earth. That was all the talk in the media, and they believed that was a <span data-t="2496.

6">spaceship that had come to save them, and they committed mass suicide in order to transcend into <span data-t="2507.

2">the comet and become one with their alien overlords.

Speaker 241:51

Yep, the hail bop comet. Yep, so that was back in the March of 1997. So the <span data-t="2520.

5">the hail bop comet was on its way to pass by, and this group saw it as a <span data-t="2528.

0">sign that that alien spacecraft they were talking about finally arrived, and it was gonna take them, <span data-t="2533.

8">you know, they were gonna transcend this, they were gonna shed their earthly physical form and transcend <span data-t="2541.

2">into the next level, the next set line of existence.

Speaker 142:25

You know what's amazing is you know, we as humans have always been fascinated by heavenly <span data-t="2553.

0">bodies, and it's depicted in paintings and everything else, but that's still true even to this day, <span data-t="2561.

4">even with the wealth of scientific information and scientific equipment that we have. We are so many <span data-t="2569.

8">idiotic stories persist about Amuamua being an alien spacecraft, or the newest one, which is three eye <span data-t="2579.

9">atlas, which is yes, you know, our third confirmed interstellar visitor. People are claiming that it's <span data-t="2588.

3">aliens, oh my god. Yeah, I watched one idiotic video of a moron who had doctored up <span data-t="2596.

0">photos and claimed that yeah, we this is images captured from some telescope, which no telescope could <span data-t="2604.

3">ever get that clear of a resolution ever. If you just use your brain for three seconds, <span data-t="2609.

8">you would know that, but it had gotten so many thousands of likes and comments, and it <span data-t="2616.

3">just makes me sad for humanity. I swear to god.

Speaker 243:40

Yeah, and I just don't understand why. Well, I do understand because in the world of <span data-t="2626.

6">social media, you have to hype shit up, you gotta get your views, you gotta get your <span data-t="2631.

7">clicks, because that's how you get paid. So I can understand that's why people do that shit. <span data-t="2636.

2">But with this type of situation, unfortunately, they They all committed suicide, 39 members, including the <span data-t="2644.

6">leader Applewhite. So they committed mass suicide in Rancho Santa Fe, California. For that, like you said, <span data-t="2651.

8">they wore the matching outfits, the Nike shoes, and they left basically a video explaining why they <span data-t="2659.

1">did what they did. And what's really interesting about these folks is that how calm and planned <span data-t="2668.

7">it was. Oh, yeah. There was no like you're forced to do this. Like people literally left <span data-t="2675.

8">the cult. They were like, I can't do it. I'm like, okay, bye. You're gonna be here now.

You're gonna be stuck. Yeah. So they did what they did back in 97. And what's <span data-t="2684.

2">interesting is that they still have loyalists around, and their website is still up today, still <span data-t="2689.

6">maintained, which is just it's just baffling to me.

Speaker 144:52

Well, I mean, you get all kinds of strange beliefs out there. I mean, hell, we've got <span data-t="2698.

4">Scientology, which isn't that far off from the ideas of Heaven's Gate. And it's just it's just sad.

Speaker 245:08

You said it, not me. Come for him.

Speaker 145:11

The scary part is that Scientologists have an entire arm of men in black that will sit <span data-t="2718.

1">there and trace you down and try to hunt down your family, and it's just some scary <span data-t="2724.

9">ass shit.

Speaker 245:25

If you ever watch any of the documentaries on it, I think there was one on Netflix <span data-t="2730.

1">about by uh what's her face. She was in the show The King of Queens, Leah Leah Remini.

Speaker 145:36

Oh, the main actress in it? Yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 245:39

Yeah, she did a whole uh documentary about her time uh within Scientology, and then South <span data-t="2745.

9">Park did an episode about it, which is brilliant. South Park just goes after everybody. I'm surprised <span data-t="2754.

6">they haven't done a rapture episode yet.

Speaker 145:56

I'm surprised too, but their Mormon episode is just Chef's Kiss. I mean and the Broadway <span data-t="2764.

1">play which was spun off from it was Chef's Kiss as well.

Speaker 246:08

I've never watched the play, I want to.

Speaker 146:11

I've only I haven't seen all of it. I've seen like bits and pieces of it, and <span data-t="2775.

1">yeah, I've been wanting to watch all of it and just haven't had a chance to.

Speaker 246:19

But yeah, man, those uh the reason I wanted to bring up and talk about those two <span data-t="2785.

3">well, we talked about three specific cults, is kind of these three highlight the danger of this <span data-t="2792.

0">type of psychosis that people can get lost in and do irrational things, like believing that you're <span data-t="2799.

4">going to disappear on the 23rd of September and essentially get carried up to heaven. So you <span data-t="2805.

2">sell everything and you get rid of all your personal possessions only to find out the next <span data-t="2811.

7">day that that never fucking happened. And I know for some this will be a controversial episode, <span data-t="2817.

0">but I don't think it is.

Speaker 146:58

I honestly don't I you know I think that some of the underpinnings that we started it <span data-t="2824.

8">off with may be more controversial than the topic itself, but it needs to be discussed because <span data-t="2832.

7">we're getting to the point where whether it's religious or not, psychosis is becoming more and more <span data-t="2843.

0">prevalent in our daily lives, whether it's religious psychosis, uh and I think it's true even for <span data-t="2851.

0">political psychosis, and that is springing up more and more now, where now individuals can live solely <span data-t="2861.

1">within echo chambers online and have their these beliefs, erroneous as they are, constantly reinforced and <span data-t="2871.

4">validated, and that can drive people into deeper and deeper radicalization, uh, to the point where you <span data-t="2882.

5">know our mass shootings are up so horribly much, it's a very scary prospect, and especially given <span data-t="2893.

7">how people have at least the illusion of anonymity, and they feel like, oh, I can't be <span data-t="2902.

2">held for my to account for my actions, and they think that they can get away with <span data-t="2907.

8">anything, or that the little bit of power that they have affords them a shield against any <span data-t="2915.

6">repercussions, and it's just gonna keep getting this well, is gonna keep getting deeper and deeper, and <span data-t="2922.

8">you know, this is nothing new. We've had this with heretical beliefs ever since the idea of <span data-t="2931.

6">religion has ever been floated around just within the Christian circles. You've got radical ideas such as <span data-t="2938.

5">Gnosticism, uh Mandanism, uh, etc., that just kept screaming forth until they were put down or deemed <span data-t="2947.

9">too inappropriate. But now that we have thousands upon thousands of echo chambers, and we even have <span data-t="2956.

1">news media that creates entirely separate realities from what one may judge as a more objective truth <span data-t="2967.

2">that people are going to continue to spy all down, and that's a it's a very scary prospect.

Speaker 249:33

Yeah, that makes sense. And the one example I could think of that I immediately think <span data-t="2978.

7">of, it's there's that meme out there. Well, it's kind of like a used as a meme <span data-t="2985.

0">where they're like, if you say I like pancakes, someone will comment back saying, so what you're <span data-t="2990.

2">saying is is that you hate waffles type of type of shit. Yep, yeah. So yeah, but <span data-t="2996.

5">from the religious perspective, what I wanted to your favorite term circle back to something you said <span data-t="3005.

6">earlier, and I promise this is this will be the last thing we cover because we've been <span data-t="3009.

8">here for a little bit. I want to be respectful of your time, but actually, since you're <span data-t="3013.

2">my friend, I'm not going to be, so I'm just gonna take as much time as I want.

Speaker 150:17

You respectful?

Speaker 250:21

You mentioned when we were talking about people reading scripture and interpreting scripture, and that you <span data-t="3028.

8">need someone that's educated on scripture to essentially uh spread that among the community. I don't I <span data-t="3038.

1">think differently, I'm more of the type of person that whether rightly or wrongly, I personally think <span data-t="3045.

5">I don't need to go somewhere for someone to tell me how to interpret and how to <span data-t="3051.

4">do certain things. I don't know if it's because I'm a stubborn asshole or because I look <span data-t="3057.

0">at people as people, and it's like, I like why should you you you get what I mean?

Speaker 151:02

I do, but I will say that you as a Catholic have been handed down a rational <span data-t="3073.

0">set of interpretations because the priests that you have heard homilies from were very well educated in <span data-t="3083.

3">the topic. I grew up in all manner of Protestant churches, and I have heard everything from <span data-t="3092.

5">open racism to heretical views to God only knows what else being openly spouted, and people believed <span data-t="3105.

3">in this shit. I have seen more I there are more uneducated preachers in the south than <span data-t="3112.

2">you could ever hope to shake a stick at. And some of the beliefs in which they <span data-t="3117.

2">are instilling into their flock is scary. That is the point that I am making. Not that <span data-t="3123.

9">you need to have something dictated to you on high, but you need to have an educated <span data-t="3130.

5">perspective, whether that's given from a priest, whether it's done through valid academic sources, that can <span data-t="3140.

2">at least point to the correct historical setting that you the meaning can become, uh, if not <span data-t="3150.

2">perfectly clear, a lot less vague, or it can be divorced from what we think of now <span data-t="3159.

4">uh and put more into a historical context. That's what I'm saying. Not that you have to <span data-t="3164.

8">have a priest dictate to you, oh, you have to believe it this way. The point is <span data-t="3170.

0">to steer away from heretical views that the uneducated can unknowingly spout and mislead people that they <span data-t="3180.

3">should be doing a much greater service to.

Speaker 253:02

No, I think you make some good points there, uh, about you know someone understanding and <span data-t="3188.

8">being educated on the matter, I guess interpreting it correctly and not leading people astray. So <span data-t="3195.

5">completely valid points.

Speaker 153:16

That's my main point because I was also raised by a grandma who on her near her <span data-t="3205.

0">deathbed when brother Buddy came out to evangelize about her. Uh what to her, she said, I <span data-t="3213.

8">can find God faster than the tobacco field than I could ever find him in your church.

Speaker 253:38

So grandma did not play.

Speaker 153:42

No, she did not. Pokemee Green did not play with any of that shit.

Speaker 253:48

But yeah, man, I think like my perspective comes from I guess being exposed to other <span data-t="3234.

1">places aside from the Catholic Church, where it's like, why are you telling me this stuff and <span data-t="3239.

7">you're asking for money, but you live in the richest part of town in a million-dollar home, <span data-t="3245.

8">and you drive a fucking like Rolls-Royce. Like, where is the fucking disconnect?

Speaker 154:10

Yeah, and I I think that's the point. It's the it's something that Emmanuel Kant said, <span data-t="3256.

1">Sapway adue, have the courage to use your own intelligence, don't just blindly believe it doesn't matter <span data-t="3264.

6">who's telling you something, you have to be able to evaluate it and have a solid frame <span data-t="3270.

2">of reference for doing so. I mean, hell, we live in a time when there are rabid <span data-t="3278.

9">believers in a flat earth. What the shit? That's another kind of psychosis, but it could just <span data-t="3285.

8">be pure idioticy. I don't know, but it's just it's patently ridiculous. The amount of just bullshit <span data-t="3295.

1">that can spring up online from unverified and uneducated idiots trying to make a buck is staggering, <span data-t="3303.

6">and you have to be able to evaluate that in a sane and calm fashion.

Speaker 255:11

Use your bloody heads, like that one video that I sent you of someone saying, like, <span data-t="3316.

7">well, if the moon reflects light off the sun, why isn't it daytime at night?

Speaker 155:21

Oh my god, yeah, I hate people. That's my final statement. I hate people.

Speaker 255:32

Yeah, this world is uh an interesting place. I'll I'll put it that way. Accurate. Yeah, <span data-t="3340.

3">so buddy, thanks for coming on today's episode. There were some points where it was, you know, <span data-t="3346.

1">emotionally charged on your part, but rightly so, because you have had direct exposure to certain things <span data-t="3353.

0">we discussed today.

Speaker 155:53

But yes, remember at the end of the day, I am always right. Yeah, I guess I <span data-t="3359.

5">think that's the takeaway that we can that we can have, right?

Speaker 256:03

Oh don't you have some damn debugging to do? Get out of here.

Speaker 156:07

I finished my debugging, I have a green pipeline.

Speaker 256:11

Yeah, until tomorrow you gotta call it your fucking code stops working.

Speaker 156:15

Oh no, my my code is rock solid. I've never had a bug ever in my life. <span data-t="3379.

5">I am just that other project says otherwise. Joe mama, no, but all right, man.

Speaker 256:29

Uh thank you for coming on the show, JJ. I know it's been a while since you've <span data-t="3393.

8">been on, and we've done a joint release, so I appreciate it.

Speaker 156:36

Honestly, it's been I haven't had an episode in Southern Demonology in a few months just <span data-t="3402.

2">because I have been just this side of being completely burned out, and I needed a break. <span data-t="3409.

6">And this is kind of my first four-way being back in the saddle, and it has been fantastic.

So I greatly appreciate it.

Speaker 256:58

Yeah, get more episodes into the pipeline. That's the only pipeline you need to worry about <span data-t="3423.

0">right now. Your Southern Demonology pipeline. Get some shit recorded, all right.

Speaker 157:07

Paycheck would say otherwise, but I agree with it.

Speaker 257:12

Well, if you could turn Southern Demonology into your paycheck, uh you know, that'd be I <span data-t="3437.

3">I would trust me, I would love that, but I won't hold my breath. But all right, <span data-t="3443.

0">bud, where can the listeners find you if they want to yell at you about anything you <span data-t="3447.

4">said today?

Speaker 157:28

Uh, that would be southerndemonology.com, which has all of our links and a contact form, and <span data-t="3455.

8">it goes straight to me. So if you do have if you want to bring up thoughtful <span data-t="3461.

5">rebuttals in a kind way, then contact me. Uh more than happy to hear whatever you gotta say.

Uh, I don't have um too big of bridges to think that I can ignore any message <span data-t="3475.

8">that comes to me. So uh always more than happy to hear from anyone that bothers to <span data-t="3481.

4">listen to the sound of my voice because that uh that's some dedication right there.

Speaker 258:08

Oh, by the way, listeners, if if you do reach out to JJ, he loves Taylor Swift. <span data-t="3493.

2">So send him Taylor Swift YouTube links.

Speaker 158:15

I am the biggest Swifty in the world. Oh my god. I and oh, and listeners, if <span data-t="3503.

8">you're the biggest secret that Chris ever has is that he has the worst taste in music, <span data-t="3509.

8">he doesn't like Taylor Swift, uh, to my knowledge, but he oh my god, the amount of <span data-t="3516.

3">boy bands and white women music that he listens to is unguff eighties music, asshole.

Speaker 258:42

No, don't hate.

Speaker 158:44

Oh don't hate 80s music. I don't like the kind of stuff that you like.

Speaker 258:49

Don't hate on Madonna, okay? Madonna shit back then was legit.

Speaker 158:53

I grew up in the age of music videos, and no, it was never this shit. Yes, <span data-t="3538.

2">it is it was okay, but it wasn't great.

Speaker 259:00

No, you get a couple of drinks in you and it's like the best thing you ever <span data-t="3543.

0">fucking heard. So accurate.

Speaker 259:07

But all right, folks, if you want to reach out to me and be a guest on <span data-t="3552.

4">the show or share some paranormal stories or some other topics you would like us to cover, <span data-t="3556.

9">maybe about some other cults or some true crime, just shoot us an email at twroadpodcast at gmail.com.

If JJ ever finishes the website for us, we'll have all of our links and socials <span data-t="3568.

5">on there. So get on that, buddy. But I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I appreciate it. <span data-t="3574.

5">All right, listeners. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I know it was probably a little bit <span data-t="3579.

7">controversial for some, but you know, we always have good fun with this stuff. Thank you.

Speaker 159:45

And I think it's extremely important to explore regardless of how controversial it may be. Thank <span data-t="3597.

3">you for listening to Southern Demonology. Find us online at Southern Demonology.com, which offers links to <span data-t="3605.

9">all of our social media and episodes. Southern Demonology is solely owned, produced, and edited by myself. <span data-t="3615.

0">And the intro and outro music are composed by me as well. If you have a moment, <span data-t="3621.

5">please rate, like, and share this podcast, as it is the best way to help support my work.

As always, I am JJ, and it has been a pleasure to speak to you today.

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