Are you interested in angels, demons, ghosts, spirits, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, influence, and how to protect against the unknown? If so, then welcome to Southern Demonology, the podcast that explores all of this and more. Hello all.
And welcome back to season four, episode seven of Southern Demonology. As always, I'm your host, JJ. So if you've listened to last week's episode of Hell Yourself Part One, then you will already know the subject matter at hand. If you haven't, then I would highly encourage you to go back and listen to that one first. As the rest of this episode may not make a lot of sense until you do. And I don't want to give away things if you are unfamiliar with the topic.
We pick up the conversation straight from where we left off last week, with Chris going into a quotation from Voltaire, who, funny enough, I actually took an entire graduate level course on at Harvard and did not even think to mention that fact during this interview. Going back and listening to it now did not make me think entirely too much of my own intelligence at that point in time.
But we further our conversation by going specifically into the interview that Anton LeVay's consort had with Art Bell and examined some of the principles that she espoused in that interview to further some of the points that were made in the previous episode. And I do have to apologize to y'all for last week's episode and that there was a little bit of sound leveling issues. I ran out of time editing that particular one and realized that my usual tricks of getting everything to work just wasn't quite doing it this time.
So I did as much manual adjusting as I possibly could to get everything to sound at least in line with each other, but I still think it was noticeable. However, I have been able to rectify that thanks to no small help from Victor of Trailer Trash Terrors, who was very kind to hop on a working session with me and made me realize that I had simply screwed up my mixer settings somewhere along the way.
I haven't really talked about this very much, but I have been going through some eye issues the past couple of weeks, which is rather ironic given the fact that as a kid, I was petrified of going to sleep without a nightlight, thinking that I would wake up blind in the morning. Things are slowly getting better on that front, but some things are still a little hard to read. I beg your indulgence if you do happen to notice any issues with text andor recording levels. Fell that out of the way.
At least I think my French is no better than yours, so Spanish is one of my languages because my mom speaks Spanish. And when I try to read French, I read it as Spanish and it's just completely horrible. But the one quote is that the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. I thought it would see us loose. Apparently it was originally penned by that French poet, and it was just like reworded around.
Oh, okay. Well, I learned something new every day. I love that.
Yeah, it said that particular quote comes from the movie The Usual Suspects. And I think I haven't seen it, but I think they in the movie they might attribute it to C.S. Lewis. But apparently, like when I searched online, it said that they attribute it to that French poet. But the reason that I bring that up is when you talk about Satanism in general, the thing that I can refer to the most is the uh Art Bell inter interview that he did with the former high priestess.
I don't even want to really say her name, but basically, the entire thing the entire time she's saying that there is no Satan, it's all about you, it's all about humanists, it's a humanist movement. But at the same time, they're talking about magic, they're talking about LeVay conjuring up Satan and actually interacting with Satan, apparently, allegedly, and they say that on one hand Satan doesn't exist, but on the other hand, why is your group or whatever you want to call it called the Church of Satan? Why do you label yourself a religious group then?
If you don't believe in Satan as a deity and you believe in humanists, like humanism, uh that's the one thing that gets me. So is that how they try to twist and attract people to it in the sense that they say that no, it's about human beings. But yet, as if you go to our website, there's a big ass faphomet plastered on on their website.
Oh yeah. And I mean, Baphomet is their public figure, I mean public-facing figure in terms of their icon. They've even released children's videos, which are all about bodily autonomy. And on one side you have Baphomet playing the the the DJ scratching, whereas you have the devil uh on the other side rapping about autonomy. It's the most surreal thing that I think I have ever seen. I'm like, what the heck?
Right. And if it sounds like I'm holding back a bit, I am. I'm trying to keep it civil because you and I share the same religious background and not to mince words, Satan is the enemy to us. And it's I'll I'll leave it at that, but go on.
Well, uh the the only two other points that I was going to make is if you can convince God's creatures to reject him by embracing themselves, then what a win. You know, you have achieved your goal. You have uh forced them to turn away from you by looking at at themselves. But even worse, if it's done in the name of God's ultimate enemy, then that's a double win right then and there. And I think that's exactly the reason why these places use the name of Satan. Whether it's the church, whether it's the temple, they do this as a double insult to God.
And I think that's most evident just in the fact of when they say and when it's dark, you'll be the light. If that's not the ultimate representation of haughtiness and supremacy, then I don't know what is.
You can edit this out, but did you want to go into the interview more that she had with Art Bell?
Yeah, yeah. If you have any insights into that, I would love to hear them.
But yeah, JJ, I wanted to go into the interview a little bit, and there was a couple of things that was said in the interview that kind of made me like shake my head. Number one, there is the claim that is made that, oh yeah, we do magic all the time. Magic does exist. But when our bell brings up the idea of ghosts and the paranormal, she's quick to say, no, that I don't think that exists. Well, which one is it? Because how can you have magic, which in a sense is kind of paranormal in a sense, it's not really of this world. What are what are your thoughts on magic in general before I continue?
I'm really torn on it, honestly. I don't think a lot of the stuff that came out of grimoires that were, you know, were prevalent during the Middle Ages are really legitimate. I I can't prove that. I I can't attempt these things and point out that yeah, this spell doesn't work, this spell doesn't work. I've never tried them, I'm not going to try them, so I'm just going to remain in ignorance on that front. But I have studied so much ancient magic just as part of my studies, as part of my independent research, that it's really hard to say emphatically there is no such thing.
In fact, and uh this is not proof, but rather more circumstantial evidence, let's say. The priests that belong to the class of Debtera and the Ethiopic Orthodox Church, they protect people from demons by actually capturing demons, embedding them into scrolls, and these things then funnel God's will. And it is said, and I've had people that have directly witnessed this themselves, that when these Debtera die, it looks like they have been tortured for a hundred years. They have the most horrible grimaces of agony on their faces when they die.
And if there was anything that's going to convince me that maybe this thing is real, and you have to remember these priests are tapping in not just to their own religious traditions, but that borrowed from Zoroastrian magical texts, which use red and black for their magical writings. That's going back thousands of years. If there was anything that was going to stand the chance of being real magic, to me, that would be it. Whether it is or not, I don't know.
But yeah, that makes complete sense. But then it goes back to when art asks, Well, do you believe in this? Do you believe in that? Do you believe in demons? And they're kinda the person is kinda iffy on the answer. They they're like, Well, I don't know if that exists. But by the example that you just gave of them using magic to interact with what's the term you've used before for uh demons, I think it's called preternatural. Yeah, proternatural. Proternatural, yeah. For things that have never been a human being, right? Is that what that's exactly the definition?
If ancient magic exists, like the example you just gave, to interact with those beings, and are are you trying to say like these magic rituals? Well, not you in particular, but are they trying to say that these magic rituals don't do the same thing? Like when you go, like the example that you gave, when you go into that destruction room, well, that ritual room, and you do that destruction ritual, what are you really calling upon? Because they get she gives the example of saying, Well, I'm just throwing it out into the universe.
Okay, that's fine and dandy, but we don't really know who you're calling on, what specifically you're asking for. Yeah, I don't believe you're they're going in there like a frickin' what are what are those things called, where you uh a rage room and you just go and like break shit up. No, I I don't think that's the case.
No, I I I would completely agree with you. They it sounded like there's a great deal of structure in it. There are incantations that are actually being spoken, rituals that are being performed. All of this is highly specialized information. So yeah.
Right, right, and the whole concept of a ritual is kind of like religious in itself. Like you I like I don't do a frickin' ritual to go and lift weights. I just drink my pre-workout and put my stuff on and I go lift. I don't cut a lock of my hair and take a sl cut open my hand and put my blood in candle in like a candle fire for the intent of you know breaking my deadlift PR that day. Goodness help you if you did. I know. I'm trying, I'm trying. I I'll I'll get there. But you get what I'm saying?
I don't I don't mean to like talk in circles with this, but the whole concept of we don't believe in Satan Satan, we don't have a deity that we worship to, but yet we have a ritual room in which we do rituals, specific rituals for specific things, in which we expect specific outcomes, and when you do said rituals, whenever you do a ritual, you have intent and you're calling upon something. And I know they say like they like to call upon the universe, the energies, or whatever. To me, that that falls into the same category.
It's probably some sort of deity, it's probably some sort of spirit that you're interacting with that it's going to do your bidding, whether it's a gent, demon, or whatever the hell you want to call it, or or Satan himself. So that that's one of the things that I had trouble understanding. And as you go through the interview, the entire time that she's talking, it sounds like she's trying to convince herself that what she did was right.
You know, those people that they are so far along in something, it's like, oh well crap, I I I'm too far along, I can't go back, because if I go back, I'll look like a freaking moron.
Yeah.
I got those vibes from that interview. I don't know about you, but I definitely did.
I I could see that. I mean, that I think that's a pretty insightful observation that you just made. Because yeah, you could easily cross-apply that type of perspective, and I think you come out in a vastly different area where she would have ever wanted someone to attribute her words to.
Yeah, and as she's talking and she's like talking about like the different things that they do and how they had big wins, and they're, you know, they're Satanists that are lawyers and this and that, and real estate agents, and they could be your neighbor. Okay, that's that's fine and dandy, but I'm still not gonna join you. Like, you she's very charming with her words, but it it's one of those things where you're not really doing a great job of convincing me. Like, if she was making a pitch for people to join, I I don't think that that went over well.
And it was really unsettling the way she talked about children, if you pick that up. Tell me what you mean. So that I think one of the points that art brought up was that, you know, the accusations of child sacrifice or child abuse or and whatnot. And she got very defensive, and I which I completely understand, if you never partook in that stuff, you'd be pretty kind of you'd be kind of ticked off too if you were accused. But the way in sh which she said, well, we don't hurt animals and we don't hurt children because children are like this beacon of light, they revere them so highly.
And it's like, well, that okay, that's nice. Yes, children are the pinnacle of innocence, as they should be, but why do you hold them on such a high?
I don't know if I'm like looking into that too much or from a different perspective.
No, I mean, uh I don't I didn't pick up on that particular thread, but that's not meaning that the thread wasn't there. I just was probably too focused on everything else that was going on rather than that. But even by the fact that even though it's a different organization, don't get me wrong, but even the fact that The satanic temple released a children's book to distill down these tenets in which they believe in. I think kind of goes exactly to what you've been saying.
Yeah. And another gripe that I have, I don't mean to turn this into my vent fest. No, no, no. That's why I invited you on the accusations laid towards God within the biblical text, saying how God is wrathful, this type of being that will never forgive you. But if you pay attention very quickly, God gave us free will, God gave us the ability to choose how we act and how we connect with him. I see God from if you when you read the Bible, because I'm reading it over again, I actually got the audiobook in which James Earl's Earl Jones narr narrates the audiobook, which is awesome.
It kind of sounds like God talking to you. What version is he reading? He reads the New Testament, and I know you hate the term Old Testament.
But no, is it King James? Is it NRSP? Oh, oh, oh, the King James version. Oh, okay. Never mind then.
Oh, is there another version I should be looking at?
Well, if you're Catholic, the NRSV is the new revised standard version of which there is a particular version that was adopted by the Catholic Church. But the RSV, the original uh revised standard version, it is fantastic because of the fact that it was published. It was the research, translation, and publication happened at EL. It was done by extremely accomplished biblical scholars. There are footnotes galore all the way throughout that actually attempts to explain. And then the new revised standard version takes that a step further.
In my opinion, and of course I am one opinion amongst millions, but it is the best version of the Bible of at least the Christian New Testament. Whereas the version of the Hebrew Bible done by the by JPS, I think it's the Jewish Publication Society, it's the blue book, is probably the best in um translation of the Hebrew Bible.
Yeah, I'll definitely have to check that out. But going back to what I was saying, like the accusation that God is not forgiving and will damn you to hell for the smallest sins that you could commit, which I don't necessarily agree with, because my from my perspective, I view for any I don't have kids, but I have a lot of little cousins, I have a lot of nieces and nephews, and I view God in the same vein as I view a parent. You have your children, you can guide them, when they do something wrong, you can punish them, and when they do something right, they get rewarded.
But unless they do something so heinous that it's unforgivable, nine times out of ten, you're willing to forgive them. And if you read the holy text, like if you read the Bible, if you read yeah, if you read the Bible, you from my analysis, that's how I viewed it. So I think that perspective that she shared was completely incorrect because God is labeled as all knowing, all loving, all forgiving, which eventually meaning that if you ask for forgiveness, you will be forgiven.
But there are certain things that are unforgivable, which we have the unforgivable sins, but I don't want to go around that go down that rabbit hole. If that if that makes sense.
But my point is that this kind of forgets the story in first of 2 Kings, where King is sent into battle after receiving false word from his all but one prophet, and he dies. But before he dies, he begs for God for forgiveness, and he is granted it. He is then accepted into God's embrace, even though he spent his entire life battling God. So it's a great it's a really easy mischaracterization to take direct quotes and turn them into something that they are not. But I I would completely agree with you on this point. God is a merciful one.
You find echoes of it not just in the Christian New Testament, but also in the Hebrew Bible, and that evidence is everywhere.
Yeah, and I think another important thing to one can deduce from the Bible when you don't worry about it, go ahead. I can't remember the exact chapter and verse within the Bible, but essentially on the day of judgment, there's going to be people that quote unquote served God and did God's work and will go to him and say, list off everything that they did and why they should be led into heaven. Well, you have to let me in because I did this for you, I did this for you, I converted these many people, I did this. And it's like they were doing all of this stuff just to guarantee their spot.
And I think to for me, the important thing to understand is that with our free will, it's up to us to welcome him in and find our own way to God, if that makes sense.
It does. So actually, the main point of what I was trying to say, and I think this goes hand in hand with what you were talking about, at least tangentially, is have you ever seen the first mummy movie?
Yeah, with Brandon Fraser.
So the scene where the translator is about to be killed by the mummy, and he reaches into his and he pulls out every every religious uh symbol and is praying in all these different languages, and it doesn't help him. That's what this king did. He was sitting there calling out to every deity under the sun, and he said God's name last, and he was forgiven. I mean, it was that exact scene, except for he got what he wanted. It wasn't he was then struck down by the mummy.
Right, right. And I think the point we're trying to convey, or at least that I'm trying to convey, is that the perspective that was shared on that interview on that show is completely incorrect in the sense that God doesn't, you know, condemn people forever because they make mistakes in their life. That's exactly what we are. That's exactly what we do.
You can't be a perfect person, but the only thing you can do is control how you treat other people and how good of a person you are to other people, to be good to other people because you want to be, not because you're afraid you're gonna burn in hell. And I think that's the the important aspect of it, and I think that's the aspect that maybe the guest on our bell show was missing.
Because it's it's really easy to say, well, God did the flood, God did this, he flattened Sodom and Gomorrah, he's gonna bring about the judgment day in which like all these people are gonna die and then and whatnot, he's gonna f help facilitate all this stuff. So it's very, very easy to view God as wrathful, but if you view it from the perspective of the analogy of a parent and a child, it it kind of makes more sense.
Very good point. And at the end of the day, I think that a lot of this boils down to a difference between what is moral and what is just, because in any modern society, you could use the law as a weapon, you can guarantee your own rights, you can guarantee your own well-being, and inflict major harm upon others in the process. Whereas if you're trying to do what is good, then you will never do something like that. And I think that's kind of the ultimate point to all of this.
At the end of the day, are you wanting to do what's good or are you wanting to do what's right, because those are absolutely not the same thing.
I I completely agree with that statement. It be they they definitely aren't. And also take into consideration what is good for you may not necessarily be good for the other person. Absolutely. And one last thing I wanted to throw in. They mentioned within the interview leading a council of nine, and they had when they were forming the Church of Satan, the Lord of the Rings was out by then. Anton LeVay had to have read that book and pulled the concept from the nine nozzle, who above all nine like like they say in the book, nine rings for the race of men who above all else desire power.
And they have a council of nine, allegedly. So, me being a huge Lord of the Rings and Tolkien Dork, I couldn't overlook that. There you go.
But the other piece to that is if you notice the number of tenants that are outlined in the book, it's seven, and that's what I want to come back to. Whether you say that these organizations believe in Satan or not, what I can say is that they do mimic the holy and they will corrupt and perversify it. And in fact, as Father Birdsong and I have talked about quite a few times in the past, the perturnatural and the infernal refer to themselves as the kingdom, just as earthly churches refer to themselves as the kingdom of God.
Anything else you wanted to throw in there before you wrap up there, Mr. Chris?
Uh, the number seven, seven rings for the dwarf lords. Oh my goodness. Okay, we're gonna cut this off. I appreciate a good token of reference, but what what I'll I'll uh say one last thing on this. For anyone that's listening to this today, if you are strong in your beliefs, whether you're a Satanist or Catholic, uh a Mormon, whatever, we're not trying to preach to you. This was an analytical discussion based off of the Art Bell interview and the Goodnight Baphomet book, which I think is has to be repeated and said.
Absolutely, because people, once they get an idea in their head, it's really hard to dissuade them of that. And I'm glad that you pointed that signpost loud and clear a few different times. In fact, I will do that again in the intro that I will make for this episode just to make it absolutely clear. But yeah, that cannot be said well enough. I am not denying that any person has the right to believe what they want to believe, because goodness knows my beliefs are not do not supersede others. Nope, neither does mine.
But I think that I think my ultimate issue with the satanic temple and the church of Satan is that to me they are practicing subterfuge, they are actively lying by saying that they do not believe in Satan. Because to me, that is simply not true. And if you belong to one of these organizations and you want to directly challenge me on that, I welcome your insight because I do not belong to them. I cannot say that I am a subject matter expert, never will pretend to be. If you'd like to say otherwise, let me know. I'd love to hear it.
And the same for me. I am open to learning, I am open to speaking to people, I don't demonize anybody for their beliefs unless you harm other people, then that's a different story. But like JJ, I'm open for discussion as well. I think it's important to have open dialogue in a world that's filled with so much polarization.
And on that front, where can people find you, Mr.
Chris? Absolutely. You can find us on Apple, Google, and Spotify by searching the Wandering Road podcast. Our most recent episode we released this Friday of recording, which is 1117. So you're probably hearing this at a later date when JJ releases it. But we did a podcast on Pazuzu Elgorod that was our most recent one. Feel free to give that a listen. If you want to reach us to actually come onto the show, or you want to share your paranormal stories with us or whatever your exp you experienced or your opinions on certain topics. Oh, I can do that. Go ahead.
You can reach us at TWroadpodcast at gmail.com. Perfect.
Well, I thank you for your time. Thank you for adding so much to this conversation. I was afraid that I would get too stuck in the points that I wanted to make. And it's always good to have another person's perspective. So I really appreciate you taking the time to read everything, to listen to everything for the research that you did, and then for being willing to share your thoughts.
I appreciate that, JJ. And thank you again. Thank you for having me on. My other half, Dean, my as in my co-host, couldn't make it today. But I will send his well wishes to your to you and to your listeners. But it was a fun one today. Thank you for having me on again. And I hope I can come back on to your show.
Of course. And by Dean, you mean your better half?
It's just my better. I'm the leader of the kingdom of the TWR.
I'm just joking. No. Is missed. I have a lot of fun talking to both of y'all, but I'm glad that you could make it. And that's going to do it for today's episode. If you want to contact Southern Demonology, you can always find us on Southern Demonology.com. May not be a link there yet, but there will be to the Wandering Road. So you can actually go to Friends of the Show and you'll find their link there. And otherwise, if you want to contact us, just click on the contact link and send us a message. So thank you very much for all of y'all's time, and we will see y'all again next week.
Thank you for listening to Southern Demonology. Find us online at Southern Demonology.com, which offers links to all of our social media and episodes. Southern Demonology is solely owned, produced, and edited by myself. And the intro and outro music are composed by me as well. If you have a moment, please rate, like, and share this podcast, as it is the best way to help support my work. As always, I am JJ, and it has been a pleasure to speak to you today.