Are you interested in angels, demons, ghosts, spirits, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, influence, and how to protect against the unknown? If so, then welcome to Southern Demonology, the podcast that explores all of this and more.
As always, this is your friendly neighborhood, ancient demonologist JJ. Well, it's been a while since you've heard me outside of an interview. So let me say that I hope your holiday season was a lot better than mine. I went back to Tennessee where I promptly tore the cornea of my one good eye. If y'all don't know, I'm legally blind to my other one. I had been having blurry vision issues for a few weeks before, but one night I felt like I had something stuck in that eye, and even went so far as to flush it out, all to no avail.
The next day, I couldn't even open my right eye without pain glancing through my head. Two trips to the emergency room on different days, and three to a very accommodating ophthalmologist later. Thank you, Dr. McClure, and things are vastly improved, thank goodness. But for more than a week there, I could not see. That is why there was a gap between episode 9 and 10, and for that I apologized. And then, of course, right after returning to Northern Virginia, I fell sick and was vomiting every day for a week. Yeah, needless to say, the year did not end well, nor has it started off great.
But hopefully, things will only look up from here. And on that note, happy 2024 to everyone. This is the year of the dragon in Chinese astrology, but for those who have a birthday that falls between January 1st and the start of the Chinese lunar year, we find ourselves in a precarious situation. If you go by the Western calendar, then I am a dragon. But if you go by the Chinese calendar, then I'm a rabbit. If you ever wondered how a large breed dog can have puppies with a small breed dog, then I'll let you picture that particular pair up, hopefully without wincing.
I will do a year interview for 7 Demonology at a later point, for those who are curious. But I don't want to detract from the phenomenal conversation that started last week and continues onward in this episode with Father Birdsong about the do's and don'ts of exorcism. In this interview, Father Mike and I had perhaps the most flowing interview I have ever had. In fact, he mentions in this upcoming continuation how he did not provide me with the list of topics that he wanted to discuss, and yet somehow I kept setting up each one perfectly.
But that isn't the only strange thing that happened during this recording session. See, when I was editing, I did not feel good at all. So I only got the chance to touch up the first part of the interview. As I was going through the portion slated for today, I ran across this clip that at first confused me. Now I will say that on a few of the other podcasts that I appear on, namely The Paranormal Rundown, we have had our fair share of EVPs or electronic voice phenomena. However, I have not encountered any on Southern Demonology. Thank goodness.
In fact, there have been zero that were found on my audio line for those that had been found. Yet, that was a streak that was bound to break. And this is the occasion. Take a listen to this clip from today's episode.
To make sure that I'm not trying to cast out a mental illness. And that's a whole nother subject to you. That I'm gonna behave on that one. I'm gonna let that one slide.
Did you hear that? Let me play just the ending portion.
I'm gonna behave on that one. I'm gonna let that one slide.
And again.
I'm gonna behave on that one. I'm gonna I'm gonna let that one slide.
That sounds like a growl. A very ominous growl. And that came not from Father Mike's line, but from my own. For transparency's sake, I did boost that sound so it can be more audible, probably on the magnitude of around 3 VB. I have racked my brain in order to explain where this sound came from. I will never go looking for supernatural or pertinatural explanations for strange phenomena in the much more likely mundane. But I came up with nothing. I record in a very silent basement with only my dog for company. And A, she rarely sits by my desk. And B, she never growls.
In fact, it's taken more than a year of training just to get her to make a noise of any kind for when she wants to go on a walk. When I shared this clip with my fellow paranormal dwarfs of the rundown, Father Mike commented, quote, the entity sounds like it got pissed off when I brought truth to the matter at hand about mental illness versus demonic possession. We are really making the enemy angry with these episodes and the monthly teaching that I do. In other words, we are making a difference. That has been the most compelling reason why I spend so much time creating Southern Demonology.
And even though I just got through saying I'm not going to attribute Supernatural for the mundane, I also have to wonder if the issues with my eye have not also been tied to broadcasting this episode or any others that I have done. Because when I visited the ER and the ophthalmologists both here and in Tennessee at the time, all of them asked me, how in the world did you tear your cornea so severely? Do you work with metal? Are you a woodworker? Do you work outside? No. None of those things. So I have no idea. But it's not the first time I've had a mysterious issue pop up in that regard.
With all that said, so I'm gonna leave the speculation there. Let's continue the final part of our conversation with Father Mike and his son Deacon Josh on the do's and don'ts of exorcism.
Well, I I agree, and uh I gotta tell you, over the past 30 years, if I charged for anything, I'd be a rich man. But you said something that really I think it's kind of funny, and I want everyone to know tonight that I did not give JJ any of these topics. I think it's so amazing that you're leading me into every topic because the next one is is about preparation.
Well I'd be dang.
I'm actually doing something right for but you said you said we had to be prepared, and that's true, and I can I can tell the only thing I can tell you is what I do, what I have learned that I must do and that is to prepare. And what I mean by that is is every time that I'm called to go somewhere or go out into the field for something, or to have someone brought into the church, I have to take advantage of the sacraments of the church. Now, what do I mean by that? Number one, I call my mentor for over thirty years and go through the right of confession. Why do you do that, Mike?
Because I want to hear that priestly blessing. I want to hear that priest who is standing vicariously through Christ say to me that I'm forgiven. I have to be a part of that divine nature.
And I can Father might not interrupt, but we really on ending the curse, one of the topics that you should talk about is definitely the act of confession. I would love to hear your thoughts.
I will do that. I'm writing it down now. But can I confess my sins directly to God? Yes. Of course. But there's something about hearing the word that God's not mad at you, that God has forgiven you. There's something about gaining that wisdom, that knowledge, that counsel, that even responsibility. I have I have been through the act of confession one time and as we say in the South, got my leg switched before. You know what I mean? But that's all part of it. So but also after that, JJ, I partake of Holy Eucharist. Why do I do that?
Because John chapter 6 tells us un unless Christ says, unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my body, you have no life in you. And that life comes through his body and blood. Hence the fact that Christ said, I have been given the keys of the kingdom. I have the keys of death, hell, and the grave. And then he gave it to the church and said, Go for it. If we are not walking in that, if we're not becoming a part of the divine, like you said, if I'm not a part of that divine, how am I gonna call upon that divine?
And I would imagine that these rites that you're going through, uh partaking of the Eucharist, of going through confession, these are not only helping to foster your own faith, but it's also donning the armor of God. It is participating in the rites that help to cement you fully within the church's authority.
Absolutely. And you hit once again the nail on the head when you said we're actually we're actually donning the armor of God. And well, that's a whole nother podcast too. We'll do that one one day too.
It is because I actually know people that have participated in these ad hoc prayer groups that think that they can exercise people by mimicking a part of the armor of God. Each one of them plays a role in that, and then they assemble like Voltron and they're able to cast out a demon. And I I was just sitting there just like scratching my head, going, Do you actually hear yourself talk or am I just imagining things right now? Because it was the most ludicrous claim I had ever heard in my life.
That's ridiculous.
But anyway, I don't mean that. No, no, I I I love it.
I mean, but see, this is this is what I want us to talk about tonight. And and I I just I just think it's great, but but also just as much as we prepare, JJ, as much as we need to do that, excuse me, it'll lead me to the to the next point. Okay, you you're done. You're you've you've done your deal. You said your fifteen little minute prayer, or you stayed in a house all night and you're done. What's your exit plan? What are you gonna do then? You prepare to go if you if you had the the wisdom to at least prepare yourself, what are you gonna do now that it's over?
And that that is so overlooked also because because when you walk into that, I don't care if you're walking into an exorcism, I don't care if you're walking into a house that is possessed, it doesn't matter. It's gonna take something out of you. Something is going to be within you. What are you gonna do now? Me personally, I go right back to the church and I take advantage of the sacraments and I gain ministry from those in authority over me, I receive blessings, I receive holy unction because I have to, because I don't want to lose me, so I have to put Christ in me.
The very first time that we ever spoke, and you talked about going to your archbishop, if I'm remembering this correctly, and receiving those sacraments after you had done the work that you were called to do, I knew you were the real deal. Because otherwise anybody can go off and say a few prayers and hope for the best. But the fact that you cared enough to go through the preparation to do the work and then to cleanse yourself after that fact, that's how I knew I could trust you.
I don't think Josh would mind me sharing a part of his story about that situation. But but even he he walked away affected as well. He got terribly sick. Terribly sick. Oh gosh. He he caught some kind of respiratory lung thing. And one of our one of the members of my team, so to speak, has the discernment of spirits. And I'm going to get to that too. But but they could picture this this serpent around his chest just squeezing. I said, uh-huh, I know where that came from. And so we had to deal with that. And it was through the sacraments of the church that it was dealt with.
You see, your common two-day boot camp, they're not gonna treat they're gonna they're they're not gonna teach you things like that. They're not gonna teach you an entry and exit plan. I mean, let's let's think of the Marines and the army and all the special forces, wherever they go, they got an entry plan and an exit plan. The same thing goes within this nature of the demonic, so to speak. And I see that coming through Southern demonology all the time, and I'm like, I'm glad that JJ is sharing things like this.
But let's say you do prepare, let's say you do have the knowledge, but there's one other key point that I want to throw in tonight is if if you have that I'm can I use the term head knowledge? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah, books. Do you just have the books marked or and this is gonna take us real deep or are you called to this office? It's it's kinda like sometimes I say about the medical field and doctors and nurses. You have nurses, I'll I'll just I'll just take on the nurses tonight, forgive me. All you wonderful R's. I I love you all, I really do.
But are you there for a check or are you there for because you care? And so when I say, Are you called to do this, do you have a supernatural divine calling upon your life to put yourself between a creation of God in the gates of hell and say you're not coming any further? Because if you're not looking at it that way, I'm just gonna say it, stay the hell away. If you're not gonna do it that way, stay the hell away.
And that comes as part of a packaged deal. For example, I feel like I had a calling for that. However, I don't have the priestly training, I don't have the authority of the church, I most certainly do not have the pastoral experience in order to pull off something like that. Do I do that kind of activity? No, because I absolutely should not. Lay people should not be doing these kinds of activities. You don't know what you're in for, you don't know the danger that you are putting everyone involved in the situation into. It's simply not worth it.
Well, that's like Malachi Martin, hostage to the devil. In that very book, he tells you the price you pay. Every exorcist that goes to battle loses a piece of their soul in the fight. You don't come out unscathed. Even if you win, you're gonna have some sort of scar.
Exactly. And that scar can run so deep that you lose your will to live.
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You are not able to you may feel you may see the sunshine, you won't feel it anymore. It won't permeate anywhere into you. You will be living a shell of a life. And that is always the danger that a priest is performing. I mean, is uh is could potentially be suffering by doing this, and that's why it's not an act of glory, it is an act of sacrifice.
You mentioned laity. Now, I have I have laity on my team, but this is what my laity does. Three of them are intercessors, and that's what they do.
What do you mean by that?
Intercessor is one who prays and intercedes for me and the demoniac during the times of exorcisms. And I know for a fact that they pray for me daily, no matter what I'm doing. I mean, even if I'm just at home taking it easy one day, they're they pray for me. I I know that each and every day that I'm covered in prayer, but specifically during the time of the rite of exorcism of a person, place, or region. Secondly, some of those on my team are RNs. I have a EMT on my team. I have people that have had a great training and counseling to make sure that I'm not trying to cast out a mental illness.
And that's a whole nother subject too. That I'm gonna behave on that one. I'm gonna I'm gonna let that one slide. I don't want to get too deep tonight, but that's a whole nother one too. You you cannot cast out mental illness. Okay. As we have brought up several times in the I mean, we even brought that up in the in the suicide podcast.
Yep.
And see, things like that bother me because going out on your own doing stupid things is going to get you stupid results. So that's the that's the laity purpose is is to help me discern is this person really possessed, or does this person have a mental illness? Or is this person being affected by some type of drug that they're taking, even instantly as a prescribed prescription drug? I mean, you know as well as I do, we have medicine out there these days that affects the brain in such a way that you gain suicidal thoughts and you wind up dead. So, I mean, you know, you can cut this out, JJ.
We got too many Bob Larsons out there today.
Oh no, I'm I'm leaving that in. I completely agree. And to put this in maybe a little more accessible sound bites, play stupid games, win stupid prizes, or the most popular phrase floating around now, F around and find out. You don't want to find out. I promise you, you don't want to find out.
Exactly right. And I mean it it and it all goes back to what is actually my the my last topic for for this evening, and but we can continue talking whatever you want to, but we got to know we we got to know our place. We we got to we gotta stay in our lane. What do you mean by that, Mike? Well, what are your gifts and callings? If you're gonna operate in the spiritual realm, well, number one, you're called to it in a certain way. You're gonna have a certain gift, you're gonna have a certain calling, you're gonna have a certain office that you are operating in.
And one of the biggest things about when it comes to the demonic or the supernatural is I want to ask a person this question. And I I if they tell me I don't know, well, you don't need to be fooling with it. Do you at least have the gift of discernment? Can you discern evil? Can you discern good? Can you discern evil playing as good? Because we have a very tricky enemy. Case in point, in the book of Genesis, did not Lucifer say, Well, did God really say that you would die? Did he really say that?
Did God why would God create everything in in this garden and tell you that it's yours and ruling half the dominion over it, but you can't eat of this one tree? Well, God said, Don't eat it or we'll die. Did he really say that? So that leads me to the question with people going out doing things half-to-cocked, as we say in southern Georgia. You need to learn how to stay in your lane. Don't be trying to do something that you don't know what you're doing, because it will it will kill you. And unfortunately, sometimes that killing could actually be physical.
And honestly, that death is not the worst of the possible outcomes.
That would probably uh there's probably some that will disagree with me. That would probably be the best blessing of it.
I completely agree with you on that one. Because if you walked away from that possessed, you are now a host, unwilling or not, to a spiritual, per natural parasite that has nothing but hatred for you and wants nothing more than to corrupt, putrefy, and separate you from God. And you gave it a doorway to do that.
And that leads into a topic that I'm gonna add. Don't ever, ever challenge these things, because then you're making the exorcism about you, not the afflicted.
Exactly. And that's just one thing in general. You never engage in a conversation with these bloody things, not even just challenge, you don't want to listen to what it says, because as Father Mike just said, they are master manipulators, they can twist anything to their advantage, and if you begin, all it needs is a tiny little chink in your armor, a little seed of doubt, in which it can then grow and sprout. And I keep rhyming tonight, and I swear I'm not trying to. That's all it takes.
You then you won't even realize it, but you had then been germinated, and you have exposed yourself not to just a little bit of danger, but you have now opened yourself up to a world of hurt.
One thing that's always intrigued me is why why would you want to have an open conversation with a demon? Why you're you're you're facing evil.
Why in the world would you want to have a conversation with it? Honestly, I think it's one of the main reasons why humanity ate of the tree, and that's to know knowledge. That is to know as much as we possibly can. Or it could just be a thrill of the unknown. But even if it's knowledge, that's the thing. You know, yes, you are dealing with the spiritual realm, something in which we know next to nothing about. No one has returned from the veil and been able to speak to it, unless it's been through like near-death experiences, but that's a topic for another day.
I'm not trying to, you know, dig into uh a deeper thing here. But we don't know very much about the spiritual realm at all. And it's a tempting thing to be able to go, oh, this is a thing that lives in that realm. I can possibly learn a great deal from it. But I've said this again and again, you can't trust these things. They have your they have not your best interests at heart. Even in the old tales where people were able to trap the infernal and make it do their bidding, they did so through coercion because they knew it would rip their throats out otherwise.
Yeah, and I won't even go into the validity of those old tells.
But well, I mean, that that that reminds me even of this, that I it was either Josh or I that showed you guys not too long ago. But I I want to tell, I want to tell the quote unquote Christians out there, there's no such thing as a blooming Christian Ouija board. The spirit board, the Holy Spirit board on Amazon.
I think that was a prank more than anything else. Why in the world would someone this is something that we shared on our Discord server? It was a Ouija board that had instead of a normal planchette, it was a cross, and uh it was supposed to be geared toward Christians. It was ridiculous, and I pray to goodness that it was a fake, but you never know.
I had to look it up on Amazon Prime for myself. Yeah, it's actually there. I'll uh I'll send it to you, but I mean you see, they even have a what was Josh? What was the My Little Pony thing they got now? My little pony tarot cards or something like that. I'm like, that is not okay. You don't that is that is the demonic becoming infiltrated to the children, and if you buy these things for your children, you're doing nothing but opening the door for them to become possessed.
It is not okay, people of the church, for your teenagers to play around with Ouija boards, they're opening portals of hell. It is not okay for some amateur to go on some ghost hunt to become possessed by some demon. It's not okay.
Exactly.
Anyway, I I I but I am so thankful that we could have this conversation, and I would really like to hear any of your thoughts before you dismiss us.
I I'm not trying to preach to people because I'm not a priest, I'm not a preacher, even though I do have a reverend title now that doesn't mean anything, but we won't go into that, and I know it may come off a little high-handed, and if that's the case, then I apologize. But my point in wanting to have this conversation, and even the Ouija episode that came out before, my goal is to warn because I don't want to see anyone play a stupid game and win a stupid prize, especially when that prize is potentially putting your own soul in jeopardy. It's not worth it. Leave it to the professionals.
That's what they're there for.
Absolutely.
Anyway, those are my final thoughts. I'll let you give your final thoughts because I would love to.
Okay, Josh has one more thing. Sure. Just to go back to uh what you mentioned at the beginning of the movie The Exorcist, there's one scene in there that's actually based on a true story in itself. Near the end of the story, the priest, Father Karis, challenges Pazuzu in the movie and tells it to get into in him instead. That actually happened back in the 1600s, 1700s in France. There was a Jesuit priest that was at a at a nun's convent performing an exorcism, and he decided decided to get a little too big for his britches and challenged the demon on even playing field, so to speak.
It got into him and drove him insane to the point where he threw himself out of a second-story window. This is another reason why you don't challenge these things and make it a personal battle.
Exactly. But I will also throw in one thing and say that Pazuzu is not the devil. So anyway.
And Azazel is not Azazel. That would be accurate. And revelation is not revelations. Oh my god, don't get me started. I I like that. I really do. But uh, but Josh says something about the about that whole challenge and in wanting to challenge the demon on a on a level playing field, and and I I feel like I need to answer just one last question so that people will gain a greater understanding. Especially in the last case that I had, I was constantly asked to come to the person's home and instead of bringing them to the church. I'm not gonna do that.
And I at our first meeting, I laid out divine instructions. We're gonna deal with you here in the church on God's playing ground with the sacraments, with the signs and symbols of the church. Then we'll deal with a home. Because a home needed to be cleansed as well. But that was a constant, constant battle. And the reason for that is because the enemy knows that if I that if he can get me on to his playing ground, I have less strength.
However, in the holiness of the church, where it should things like that should be taken care of is on divine ground, consecrated ground under God, not consecrated ground under Satan that we've allowed in.
That makes sense it does. Walking into a place that you know is booby-trapped might make for a decent or at least cliched Hollywood movie. It does not make for solid spiritual advice.
Well, you you you hit the nail right on the head. You said walking into a place that you know is booby-trapped. Well, if I know it's booby-trapped, why would I walk into it?
Exactly.
Absolutely.
Father Mike, I cannot thank you enough for your time. I think this has been an amazing conversation, less so from my own contributions, but from what you had to say and the wisdom that you imparted. I really do appreciate it. Can you tell everyone where you can be found?
Well, you can you can find me online, of course, on uh Facebook, uh Mike Birdsong, and uh I would be the Mike Birdsong in Thomaston, Georgia. But at any rate, I'm the pastor priest of St. Michael's and All Angels Charismatic Episcopal Church here in Thomiston, Georgia. You can also find me on uh www becoming a house of prayer dot com. That is a a webpage with my first book that I wrote and also some information and bio on me. There will be another book link there within the next couple of days entitled Walking with Christ.
And now JJ, I don't know if you knew this, but I am six chapters into a new book entitled The Name of My Podcast, Ending the Curse. I'm just trying to stay busy and doing what I feel that God has called me to do. But before before our we end this night, JJ Ken, can I bless you and our listeners? Oh, please do. Well may the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give each and every one of you tonight peace. And I'm gonna patriot flee spiritual sanctions. Amen.
I'm in. One of my favorite things is from the Dead Sea Scrolls, at the ending of books, you will see a very traditional ending of a prayer, which is I mean, I mean shit, which is verily, verily truthfully. That's what amen is. It's I mean, which is truth. So verily, verily truthfully. And I I love that. Thank you, Father Mike. That meant a lot.
Absolutely.
And I want to thank you all for listening to us. In the outro, you'll find all of my own information, southerndemonology.com. But please take a listen to ending the curse. I have not been paid to say this. I just I really do believe very strongly that I think that Father Mike's podcast is stepping into a very needed gap to provide information that we all need. And plus, you'll have fun in the meantime. So thank you all for listening. And thank you, Father Mike. Thank you, Josh. I really appreciate it. And uh we'll see you. Yes, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you for listening to Southern Demonology. Find us online at Southern Demonology.com, which offers links to all of our social media and episodes. Southern Demonology is fully owned, produced, and edited by myself. And the intro and outro music are composed by me as well. If you have a moment, please rate, like, and share this podcast. As this is the best way to help support my work. As always, I am JJ, and it has been a pleasure to speak to you today.