Are you interested in angels, demons, ghosts, spirits, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, influence, and how to protect against the unknown? If so, then welcome to Southern Demonology, the podcast that explores all of this and more.
Hello all. And we are joined yet again by one of my absolute favorite guests. You know him extremely well. It is Father Michael Birdsong, and of course, his son, Deacon Josh. And we were having a discussion on our other podcast, the Paranormal Rundown. Actually, even before we get to that, I do want to say once again, I've announced this before, but Father Birdsong has started his own podcast, Ending the Curse. Do you want to tell the folks out there just in general what your podcast is about? We'll take just a couple of seconds.
Ending the Curse, it it became my initial vision to talk about the hard things and things that get missed every now and then. The hard subject, so to speak, but the name of it, ending the curse, there's a great foundation and strength in that name to equip people to not go around the same old mountain every day and live a defeated life. And there's things in our life that we do, but we don't ever really get a chance to discuss it. Once again, hence the fact I want to pick hard subjects, subjects that nobody wants to talk about because it makes people uncomfortable.
And when we can talk about those things and get them out and get them overcome them in our lives, then we become more victorious and more equipped to live our daily life, if that makes sense to you. So I mean, and there's there's no topic taboo. I mean, we'll talk if if anybody says, Well, what about this? Well, we got a group of dorky guys that can talk about it, and we we may get it right, we may get it wrong, we may laugh, we may cry, but it really doesn't matter. So so I just want to encourage everyone to uh tune in and uh make yourself at home when you see it.
Yeah, and when you say the hard subjects, you are not joking about that. A recent episode that was released was around suicide. And I want to thank you for having that conversation because especially when it comes to living in the south, if someone commits suicide, then it's almost like their memory is swept underneath the rug, and it's forbidden to even talk about them anymore.
That that in its case, JJ, is the sole purpose for ending the curse podcast.
And I love it. The fact that you have 30 plus years of pastoral experience and giving advice to your parishioners and to the community, and that you can now come on and share that, not with just that limited subset of people, but with everybody, is something that I highly encourage and celebrate, and I think you're gonna do fantastic. So we will have a note to his uh podcast down in the show notes. So please go check it out. I will say though is that it's not just the hard topics.
Yeah, there may they may be difficult, but there is so much uh hope and laughter that is spread within these conversations that it's not, you know, it's not an anxiety uh inducing experience to listen to these things. Yes, he tries to bring out as much information as humanly possible to inform and to instruct, but we have a good time doing it. So I I I think it's you know highly worthwhile to take a listen. And plus it's entertaining. Absolutely.
So and you can send me my check in the mail for your endorsement. There you go. But today, as I was saying before, we were having a conversation on our other podcast, the paranormal rundown. And yes, we essentially now have an entire network of podcasts which are all kind of joining forces and having fun together. But on that one, uh Father Mike suggested that we get together and talk about the do's and the don'ts of exorcism. And when he said that, my ears immediately perked up. And this morning he messaged me and he's like, Hey, we should really do this soon.
And I said, Well, can you do it tonight? And he's like, Yeah, he can. Even though I was running late because it's been a crazy day, you know, was scarfing down food and hadn't had a chance to do anything. He has uh graciously hung around, and this is a conversation that I think pairs perfectly with the content that Southern Demonology does. Yeah, I have been really excited to hear his insights on this.
Awesome, awesome.
But what made you want to talk about this, first of all? I'm curious as to your thought process.
Well, really what made me want to talk about it is it's like I said, each and every one of us have talked about this individually. Uh, we've talked about stories per se, but we've never really got into the name of the show, uh the the do's and don'ts and the who should and who should nots. I mean that's well that that should probably be two episodes right there, but at any rate, especially over, I'm gonna say, especially over the last five years, I've seen a tremendous uptake in the RAM of the demonic. And one thing that I've also seen on the increase is so-called deliverance experts.
And that that really that really bothered me.
And I started listening what do you mean by delivery experts? If you can break that down, because not everyone may understand.
Well, what I'm talking about is people who claim to operate in deliverance ministry or or battle against the demonic. And I really don't like that term, but uh it's very widespread out there right now. But what we have seen is some will go on this summer camp type thing.
And yes a boot camp.
I mean, it's like they're going to cheerleading camp and they they they say they spend a week at some conference or weekend at some conference, and then all of a sudden they are quote unquote exorcists or deliverance experts. And that JJ, it really scared me to see these type of things going on because that's enough to get you hurt real bad. And oh, absolutely. To see things on TikTok or YouTube or somebody's podcast who all of a sudden is some paranormal expert, and I've seen too many get too deeply involved and then walk away harmed themselves.
I've even seen people who went to one of these training sessions, so to speak, and then get involved in somebody's ministry and wind up possess themselves. And it that's dangerous. I just walked away about a couple of weeks ago with a feeling in my whole being that this should not be, this is not right, this is not correct. Somebody's gotta stand up and say, hey, if you don't know what you're doing, leave it alone, it's dangerous. And so that's what brought me to the comment last night about we need to have this discussion.
Once again, it's the do's, the do-nots, and who should and who should not.
Absolutely. Just uh I'm not trying to cut you off, but just to even bring this back a little bit more, I think what drives the heart of the matter is it's not just these deliverance ministries, but with the advent of ghost hunting shows and other paranormal-related activity that has been elevated into the public spotlight, that there's a lot of people that are racing to capitalize on that.
Even on my own podcast, I have interviewed a person that underwent a essentially what boiled down to a correspondence course on exorcism, and thought that this kind of qualified them to do certain things, and I I didn't really call it out then, I think then I actually expressed interest, but uh it's dangerous stuff, and so that's why I really wanted to have this on and try to clarify what because one of for example, in season four, when I started up this current season, I changed the introduction to this podcast, it has brand new music, but more than that, I took out one section and I added in how to protect against the unknown.
Because over the evolution of this podcast, that has become a major focus of how to protect yourself. And one of the front lines of protection is what not to do to put yourself in danger, and that's what I really wanted to focus on in this particular episode.
Absolutely. Well, to uh to to keep things off, you you said I almost laughed out loud. And I'm used to people laughing at me. You don't gotta worry about that. I I had to hold it back, but you said you said uh some online course about becoming an exorcist. That kind of reminds me of becoming on this online ordination, and then off somebody can marry anybody.
And oh, I have one of those by the boys. I really do. Yeah, I am officially a reverend through the Universal Church of Something or Other. I had a friend that was thinking about getting married. They're like, Could you do it? I'm like, I am not a man of the cloth, but I'm sure I can find an online place somewhere where I can qualify, and sure enough, I could. I did it, didn't cost anything. Does it mean anything? No.
I think it's funny myself. I mean, I even I even I even read about it one time, and in and and somebody said, Yeah, they'll send you this little piece of paper, and you hold that piece of paper up to your head like they're laying hands on you. And I'm like, Are you serious? And they said, Yeah. I'm like, Oh my god. So but but with that being said, JJ, and I think this is one of the most critical points, and you and I have discussed it very shortly, but I think it needs to be discussed a little bit more fully.
And when someone is going out and and they are going to be fighting the supernatural, I'm talking about real demonic supernatural things. I want to know under whose authority they're doing it under. Because if they're not doing things in order and in authority, it is to no avail. Even Christ said in the gospels, even the kingdom of hell has order, even the kingdom of hell has structure, even the kingdom of hell has authority. We can read about it from Genesis to Revelation.
So if the demonic realm has all those traits, how much more should we engard ourselves in to adhere to that standard more than our adversary? And that's a question I want I want I uh the people today gotta answer that question.
Well, and and to put it even maybe a little bit more bluntly, if you are going against the pertinatural, which is by definition an entity that has never been human, that can affect our reality and have some horrendous results in doing so. If you are going up against this thing by yourself, there is nothing that would be able to protect you.
Absolutely.
Now, you can bring as much holy water and holy medallions and whatever else that you may want to do, that might as well be tissue paper at the end of the day. What truly protects you, Father Mike? When you are out there in the field and performing exorcisms, what is the one thing that really protects you as being able to do that kind of activity?
The church, in the order, in the structure of the church, the people, the saints, the people of the church. When I say the saints, I'm talking about the the saints of the church, the people that have that are binded to me by covenant, and in that vine of Christ together that are praying for me and interceding for me, the hosts of heaven that are praying for me and interceding for me, Christ Himself and Holy Spirit, and we see that in the book of Romans that is praying for me and interceding for me.
And see, if we do not have that, you can't do and and it leads me to uh uh another point down the line, but you can't be alone. And unfortunately, JJ, the whole subject of me bringing up the the topic authority is we're seeing so many now, like you said, we're seeing the uprise on ghost hunter shows and and the demonic shows and things like that. And we're just seeing people just going off and doing it for glamour. Look, fighting the devil, fighting. You said that we're fighting against something that's never been human that is so correct. Who was Lucifer? Lucifer was the top grandest angel.
Lucifer was the light bearer. Lucifer probably knows El Shaddai more than anybody else, and we think that we're gonna go up against him alone.
Exactly. I think I brought this up in my conversation with Chris on hell yourself. But no, actually, it was the Ouija episode that I brought this up. But the real events that inspired the book and the movie The Exorcist, it's I mean, A, it's extremely rare for the devil himself to be the possessing entity, but that is exactly what this thing claimed to be that took over the little boy who, through playing with the Ouija board, opened himself up to demonic influence and possession.
And it even priests who had gone through the rite of exorcism, it wasn't an hour, it wasn't two hours, it wasn't a week, it was what six weeks or months that this thing took place over, they still could not break this thing's influence until the priests at the college where this was being held at the Catholic University, received a vision of Saint Michael in the chapel, and that was the sign that it was Saint Michael himself, the enemy to the arch enemy, was lending his strength to allow this to happen, and that is what finally broke those events.
But these things are it doesn't have to be the devil, it can be anything. These are much greater than we as frail mortal humans could ever be, and I think that's an excellent point. It takes the authority of the church, and it's the idea of the church itself, it's not just a political entity, it is tapping into I I know I have mentioned this before, but this idea of the dialectic. We're not talking about the the human institution, we are talking about the divine church in which the human institution is, in best cases, being guided by, right?
That is the protection, and this is certainly not an activity that what's the best way to put this? It's not an activity that is there for glory, it's not an activity that is there for clickbait. This is, and I know I've mentioned this with Father Mike before, it is a loving sacrifice on the part of the priest who is performing it. What's your tagline that you always say, Father Mike?
Oh, the watchman on the wall. Yeah. And that's what the Yeah, I mean, when you were that why well, let me go back to what what uh to something you just you just said. You said that St.
The boy and but but one of the I think one of the key words that you said is something divine had to step in. And that is what the true exorcist has to remember. I I kind of hate to keep going back to one of mine in your favorite movies, Nefarious, but what did the demon call the racist man a bag of what? What was it, Josh? Bags of skin, you know, some monkey ate bags of skin. You think you're gonna do when when I saw that, I'm like, that's funny, but that's a hundred percent correct.
And people that are seeking glamour Christopher Walken. Go ahead. Oh, you're like Christopher Walken? Oh or as uh Christopher Walken, who is playing Gabriel in the movie The Prophecy said, he he would keep saying talking monkeys, and the way the disdain in his voice when he would utter that, like, yeah, yeah, that's pretty accurate. Go ahead.
But I mean it it's funny, but as funny as it is, it's true. And a lot of people don't get it, and they're they're they're searching out for for glamour and and some kind of reward. I gotta be honest with you. When I say that God has called people like us as watchmen on the wall, we are standing, JJ, and and saying, not today, not on my watch. And I gotta be very honest with you, every time it and I have to keep myself from getting emotional when I say this, but it's it's it's like you're losing a part of yourself every time, and it's hard.
And but see, it is the divine that has to interrupt the cycle, and it is the divine that gives the exorcist strength. It's called the sacraments of the church, and we have to maintain that steady flow of authority, order, and the sacraments of Christ, and not try to do it alone. Exactly. Even Christ Himself sent his disciples out at least two by two.
Well, and even I know it's a meme now and it's not accurate at all, but um, you know, I need an old priest and a young priest, you know, that's a good joke. But exorcists, when they go into the field, they always have one or more trained assistants who are there, and it's not only for the possessed safety, but it is also for the exorcist safety. Because what happened to that the original preacher, I think it was a a Lutheran or a Presbyterian preacher, I don't remember, who initially came out to investigate that young boy who inspired the exorcist.
They were trying to cast out the devil, and the boy ripped out a bedspring from the bed and slit that preacher from his elbow to his wrist, almost killed him.
Absolutely. And and that leads me to the the second topic of tonight, and I'm glad you said it. Training. What kind of training have you had? You know, I I mentioned at the very beginning somebody going to summer camp for exorcism. That's that's the most stupid thing I've ever heard of in my life.
Don't hold back now. Tell me what you really think. No, and I I agree with you. I absolutely agree.
I mean, that uh you know that's that's uh well another one of my taglines is always being that's why that's why so many fulfill the scripture of the prophet Hosea, chapter four, verse six, it says, My people are being destroyed for a lack of knowledge. Now, I could put that in the southern redneck English way, but I'll hold off on that one.
But uh I have an anecdote for you. I've never shared this with you, I've never shared this with anyone outside of the small little group of work colleagues in which witnessed this firsthand. And I think it will help to illustrate some of what we're talking about here. And I want it, I want you to give me your pure, unvarnished opinion as to this, and you tell me how stupid I'm gonna do.
Let me take my collar off, JJ.
And by the way, I am not beyond reproach in this regard, and I think this little retelling of a real event in my own life will help to illustrate that. Okay. Okay. I'm happy to serve as an example of what not to do if it helped somebody else. I was working at a I I will not name the company in Nashville and had a great group of friends. We did amazing work together, and we sometimes got together after work and had, you know, uh celebrate it together or do whatever.
And we this was actually right around this time of year, and we all got together to go to one of our friends' houses for a small internal holiday party, and it was just maybe five or six of us that went. While we were there at this party, and we were having fun burning things in a fire pit and eating and drinking. The guy who owned the property said, You know what? There's been some really strange things that's been going on in this house. And of course, we all kind of got curious. Me especially, because I love ghost stories and everything else, leaned in and was like, What? What's going on?
Tell me all about it. And he's like, Well, lights will just turn on, turn off, doors are open on their own, you know, there's horrible chills in certain rooms of this house. He just kept going on. Whether it was true or not, I have no idea to this day. I think he has since sold that place. But I told him, I said, okay, I there you know that there are two rights of exorcism, right? There's the exorcism of person, and then there's the exorcism of locale, right? Of location. And I've got the exorcism of locale from the Roman ritual on my phone. Let me do it. And so I did.
I walked around repeating this Roman ritual of exorcism of locale around this place, friends laughing at me the entire time, as they damn well should have, if I was had my head anywhere out of my buttocks region, which didn't seem to happen. Nothing, fortunately, nothing happened.
Well, I got I got one question real quick, though. Did you did you recite it in English or Latin?
It was pure English.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
No, no, no. I mean, you this is this was a supremely stupid thing to do. I freely acknowledge this. In fact, I look back on this event now and I inwardly cringe because I put not only them in danger, I put myself in danger. I put everyone in that house in danger by doing such a stupid stunt. And for what? To showcase a little bit of my knowledge that didn't do me crap. They were laughing at me to begin with. Did it help them in the end? No, in fact, it may have made things a lot worse.
This is an example of no matter how much you think you know, exactly, unless you have the church behind you, you absolutely should not be doing this kind of stuff.
And I I totally 100% agree with everything that you just said, and my unvarnished straight out reply to that would be is you were very blessed, very lucky. I agree. And some people will say, Well, well, they meant well. That doesn't mean there's gonna be a lot of good people, and I want everybody to listen to me very carefully about what I'm about to say, and it's a harsh thing to say. I don't care how good your motives are, I don't care if you mean good, but there's gonna be a lot of good people and a lot of good intentions in hell.
Well, what's the old saying? The path to hell.
Exactly, exactly right. But the worst case scenario would be that you could have walked away affected demonically. Worst case scenario. Plus, like you said, even bringing more harm on the whole situation. And at the very ending of your comment, you said that that is the reason why the church has to be behind us, and that opens the door for the third topic of tonight. Uh I I just jotted down some things, and the third topic of tonight would be team. Who are you with?
Because if if you see, just just like your story, you were there, although you were surrounded by a lot of people, people are going out now with the same quote unquote head knowledge. Oh, I got the right of exorcism on my phone. We'll we'll get this demon out of this person. Okay. Well, number one, you're alone. Number two, you're on you're not under authority. Number three, you've had no training. You went you went to a weekend conference, you have no experience, you have no experience in the field, you've never done it. So who are you with? Who is your team? Who is your backup?
Who had your back that night, JJ?
Nobody. And more and more to the point, the Roman ritual, yes, anybody can get their hands on it. It is a very short work, and that's because of the fact that it is not some magical incantation that you can just read aloud, and if you follow it exactly, then everything will just, you know, be okay mystically somewhere in the ether. No, it is not a mandated path, it is a framework for that an experienced priest with a good bit of pastoral experience can then build upon.
This book right here, if anybody out there has it, does not mean a thing exactly. This is words. The the word kills, the logos kills, but the spirit or the rhema of that word is what gives life. And and if you don't have that backing, those words are useless. And this this whole idea that people have, once again, it goes back to authority training and team. If somebody thinks that well, let me back up and say this most of the time in true possessions, I'm not talking about being oppressed, okay? I'm not talking about just a infestation. I'm talking about a total possession case.
Exactly. This is not Hollywood.
And you know, you know what I just went through recently. I had to step back and even look internally myself, because I I I think I told you what it was the hardest case I've ever had.
Yeah, and and in case y'all haven't heard the previous episodes, he's referring to the the case of Paula, who's that that's the codename at least.
That went on for months. Finally it went too far. And when I say it went too far was that the demon inside her just didn't want to come around me or the church anymore. And what happened was she you can edit this out or keep it. You may want to keep it. She came into the church one Sunday morning not too long ago. Well, first and foremost, she was in the back building behind the church talking to herself and cursing me and my wife in the church. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Which was which was right before two days later I fell and broke my L1 vertebra.
At any rate, but that that same morning she walked back into the church after church had started, and I felt this cold shiver just go up my back. And I'm like, somebody just walked in, and it was her. I changed the structure of the whole service right there at the very beginning. I started cording the exorcism of a region or place. And when I called out specifically Lilith, Jezebel, and Leviathan, she got up and walked out. And I knew then that the presence within her had overtaken her so much, and you remember me saying that she was codependent on the demonic.
Oh wow, I knew then it's there is there's nothing else that I can do unless by some divine sovereign intervention by God that she will come into the church and do what I tell her to do. And I say that for all just just one one whole thing. Number one, thank God I was not alone. Because if I would have been alone in that building, I don't know what could have happened.
I mean, I would say you've already have paid a pretty high price, even for that involvement that you have had just been.
And that would that went on what, three, four months? Yeah, something like that. So it you're right, it's not some one and done deal. And and most people also along that same line, if they have one success, JJ, they become prideful. And that makes me want to know what people's motive what is the motivation of some these days, and I want I want your unvarnished opinion, especially with some of the comments that I read on certain people's podcasts and stuff. It makes me wonder what's the motivation behind some's actions? Is it just to seek glamour?
Or is or has people had some minor success in something and then all of a sudden become prideful? Because that takes me back to Lucifer.
I would honestly say it's a few things. It is, I think a large part of it is the attention. And it's and for some, it's the ability to actually make money while doing this. They're like, oh hey, you know, I'm getting suddenly sponsorships and endorsements, and you know, I I can really, you know, amp things up, and so they just keep pushing the envelope. For others, it is the same common trap that a lot of us have on social media.
You see numbers go up, it releases some dopamine in your brain, and you start to chase that because the rest of your day is nothing but not that I'm trying to rhyme, gray. There's no excitement. And suddenly this is something that has an inbuilt mechanism. It's like the rat hitting the button in order to have an orgasm. Oh, I've got something that can instantly make me happy. Let's just do that as much as I can now. I'm not even going to go into the um the ramifications of that, but yeah, pride, happiness, anything that can break up the monotony, honestly.
I I think is the greatest drivers of this. And plus, I mean, yeah, it's exciting. I'm dealing with the unknown. I might be able to do something. That's fantastic. And uh until it turns around and bites. And I do want to just wrap up with this. I have put myself into danger just by doing this podcast, nowhere near as much as Father Mike, and I'm not saying this to make myself to be, oh, look at JJ, he's so brave. No, that's not true whatsoever. I am a coward through and through. But, you know, I take precautions now.
I have been taught by some of the best as to what I should and should not do, and I follow those. I try to do everything I can to make sure that I'm not exposing myself unnecessarily, but it is still a danger to be talking about these topics because the enemy does not like it whatsoever. What I have gone through is a mere drop in the bucket to what I know Father Mike and his son, Deacon Josh, have gone through. And that's why I say it is an act of loving sacrifice. I'm not trying to make money from this crap.
I I hope to at one point, and that's never going to happen, and I have embraced that. It's fine. I have a small audience, but I'm just hoping that you listen to us now. Don't go chasing the thrills of the unknown, especially when it comes to the realm of the pertinatural, because it is dangerous, and no one can tell you better than Father Mike. Thank you for listening to Southern Demonology. Find us online at Southern Demonology.com, which offers links to all of our social media and episodes. Southern Demonology is solely owned, produced, and edited by myself.
And the intro and outro music are composed by me as well. If you have a moment, please rate, like, and share this podcast, as it is the best way to help support my work. As always, I am JJ, and it has been a pleasure to speak to you today.