Are you interested in angels, demons, ghosts, spirits, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, influence, and how to protect against the unknown? If so, then welcome to Southern Demonology, the podcast that explores all of this and more.
I do have a to play the advocatus diabetes. There you go. Yeah.
I love that. The I was started thinking of it from a philosophical standpoint. And JJ, you've suffered through many of my philosophical questions that I would send you, and you're like, what the hell, man?
I have never been once through suffering. It has always been a joy. I'm so well.
I just want to know am I about to say what the hell have I got myself into today?
I'm very much the academic.
So I have a times in the nudie bars.
The nudie bars and the gun range. Josh is shading his head.
It depends on the type of gun that you're talking about, I guess. Go ahead.
Oh my god, you did not just say that. JJ, as long as long as there's no rabbits.
I was just about to say that.
Look at Chris.
Yeah, and if y'all, if y'all out there in listener land do not know what the heck we're talking about, go and listen to the paranormal rundown episode called Down the Rabbit's Hole. Yes.
Yeah, you'll give a very vivid description of what they were talking about.
But I left my tail off for about three days after that whole session.
Oh, I did too.
We had a blast that night, I'm gonna tell you.
Yeah, I have a philosophical question that anybody can answer. And then I have a question for direct directed at Father Mike. So my philosophical question is so the concept of free will for a person making a choice and not making a choice is a choice in itself, which I agree with. But what do you do in an instance where a person is in a type of situation where they don't know better or the circumstance that they're in, they haven't been exposed to what we're talking about today. Their upbringing did not expose them for what we're talking about today. They have no concept of that.
Let's say, for example, let's take a Gaul in 250 BC, and they do their actions based off of what they know, and let's say they do certain unfavorable things, and maybe there's some of the infernal involved in it. But how does this is this making any sense? Yes. How is that reconciled when it comes to this type of discussion? Because it's very easy for us to view it in a manner of we're talking about the present day and our circumstance.
But there were certain circumstances that people were kind of forced to do things that maybe the infernal might want them to do by necessity for survival or something of that sort, if if that makes sense.
Well, for the first question, and of course we hadn't heard the second one yet, but I'm gonna say this, and then I want JJ if if you got anything to uh talk about as well. But let's look at a village in the middle of nowhere, they totally live off the land, their own meads, their own everything. They have no concept of the real world. All they know is since they've been born. Okay, and I'm not too sure that even today in certain aspects of our world that people are still living that way.
I mean, let's look at some of the villages in Africa, if you will, or you know, places like that, that they have no they have no missionaries coming to them. They have not heard the good news of the gospel. And and I mean, and we can argue that point from now until Jesus comes back. But for me to answer that question would actually go back to the very beginning of our show when I was getting things set up and saw you, and the first thing I said, God's not mad with you. You remember now? Yes, I play place that statement into what you just described because they don't know.
Well, Father Mike, are you are you saying that there's people out there that have truly never heard the gospel? Well, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. And my answer to that is the very same thing that I told you at the beginning of the show. God's not mad with you, and even if they die before they hear that statement, God's not mad with them. And I believe even in the state of death, that people that are in that circumstance will have the same experience that the the person next to Christ in the crucifixion when he looked at him and said, Today you will be with me in paradise.
He was a sinner, right? Did he go before Christ and pour out his heart and cry and not and repent of his sins? No, he just simply just said, I'm a sinner. The light of you has come to me at this moment, and Christ said, Hey, you know what? Today you're gonna be with me in paradise. And so, so the people that the people that you're talking about right now, they're of the same aspect, if you will, they're on that same plane, if you will.
They don't, they don't know, they've they've never heard, they've never seen it, but something, something held them all of their life that there's something out there, they just didn't, they just didn't know the who.
No, but you know what?
That's okay.
But let's take that one step further, yes, sir. And this was actually a hypothetical that was posed to me my senior year of high high school honors English class. Our teacher, Mr. Jones, he said, Okay, so let's assume that there's a tribe somewhere who has never heard the word of God, and a missionary is sent, and they reject the word of God. How does that missionary then condemn those people to how? Because they have now heard it and they did not believe.
Well, that's when we have to understand the words of Christ when he sent the disciples out to spread the good news of the gospel, right? He told them to heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, forgive sins, so on and so forth. And he said, Those that that will receive it, rejoice. Those that do not, what did he say? Shake the dust off your very feet and go somewhere else.
Now, unfortunately, JJ and Chris, with everything that I just said about the people that may not have heard, but unfortunately, there's gonna be people that we know that we're close to, and it's even gonna break our heart that just won't accept Christ. And we all know people that's like that. No matter what circumstance, no matter what the situation is, it may be let's go to McDonald's or Burger King, you know. Some people are just not going to accept the good things. Four out of five people may want to go to McDonald's, and you got one that's hellbit on Burger King. Well, I'm sorry.
We're going to McDonald's, make your mind up. And unfortunately, and I'm putting this in southern redneck English, unfortunately, some people just won't make their damn mind up. And here's the news about that it is not on you. You can shake the dust off of your feet, you can wash your hands and say, I brought the gospel, they refused it. So when we get to free will, that's what it really boils down to. I am either choosing the best I know about Christ, even though I don't know a thing. Does that make sense to you? It does.
I'm choosing that versus I'm gonna stay on this road that I've been on forever. And unfortunately, when it comes to demonic possession, when we make that choice, so to speak, things may get a little more upset. But you know what? One of y'all read Saint Paul earlier about drinking that cup and enduring the hardships of St. Paul and crying out to the Lord three times, it said, JJ, if it is possible, let this cup go for me.
He was repeating the words of Christ in his own passion, and that's what saved Paul, and that's what's going to save us all, really, is to remember that passion and partake of that cup, but with an understanding of that, and understanding and free will are two in the same, and you cannot separate them.
Yeah, that reminds me of uh the lesson of Saint Augustine, who was a womanizer and a drunkard in his earlier life, and was very fond of saying, Lord, save me, but not yet.
Yeah, yeah. Well, Chris, unfortunately, that's a lot of people's outlook these days, you know. Yeah, it's not sad. It it it's sad, but JJ's right, you know. You know, Lord, I love you, but just not this moment because I got this beautiful girl beside me, and we're finna get busy. Look at Josh, shaking his head. Come on, dad, did you really have to go there? You know, they they just wanted to make rabbits.
My other question that I had, Father Mike, is when it comes to the infernal, and as I alluded to earlier in the show, that Father Mike has done battle against the infernal, how do you know that the demonic has somehow affected someone's free will? Is that something like is there something that you do, or is there something that you can tell by their demeanor, by what they're saying? And and Josh, feel free to answer as well.
The answer to your question, Chris, is yes. That's the best answer I can give you. Everything that you said, everything that you speculated, yes. When you when you when you walk into the presence of the inferno, I don't care if you have great discernment, the gift of discernment of spirits or not, if you are in Christ, so to speak, you're gonna feel it. It's gonna get real bad, and there's different ways that it can do that.
Number one, it can even affect your speech, it can affect your thought process, it can affect your hearing, it can affect your sight, everything, your memory functions exactly. JJ. In other words, Chris, what JJ and I are trying to portray here is that the infernal, when it is first, what in the hell was that?
What was that?
Is the uh my garb?
Oh, okay. Oh, okay.
I thought it was a parrot getting, I thought I was gonna have to go in exorcist mode here for a moment, but Jesus Mo Nilly. All right, let me gather myself. All right, so where was I? Oh, what JJ trying to portray is even from the beginning, is that the evil spirits they're gonna try to affect you and influence you from the very beginning. Soon as you walk into the room. Why is that? It's their job. Why is the enemy pouring down so much death and destruction on this person? Well, that's his job. We can't forget that.
At that point, Chris, we have to make a decision to whether I'm going to overcome that or I'm gonna submit to that. Now, on the side of the kingdom of God, I have another choice. I'm gonna give it to Christ and let him deal with it, and me be his servant, but also submit myself fully to him from what we were just talking about, that I would be protected and that he would gain glory. In other words, in other words, no matter how hard it is, how devastating the hardship is. If I'm in Christ, Christ will be glorified, but yet I will gain great favor for everything that I've lost.
Here's another reason why. Whether you're gonna be an exorcist or not, the real question is what are you what are you doing?
That's interesting that you that you bring that up, Father. I don't mean to cut you off. No, go for it. It reminds me of a conversation that I had with one of my guests on episode 50, a friend of mine that it lives in Ireland, Trev. He was telling us that when he was younger, his parents made a lot of friends in Ireland that was in the church and the clergy, and there was a priest that they became friends with. I don't recall the gentleman's name, but he was an actual actually an exorcist that worked in like somewhere in Africa, either like Zimbabwe or or something of that sort. Right.
And Trev said that he asked him, You're doing all these exorcisms, what what are what is it? What is it that you're dealing with and how do you do it all the time? And he flat out said, you know, sometimes I don't know. He said that the man was in his late 40s, but he looked like he was 80. Yeah. Of how much all that took out of him to do all of that.
I have phrased it to be an act of loving sacrifice on the part of the exorcist. Martin himself says in similar ways, but he says that the exorcist becomes the hostage. He substitutes himself in lieu of that individual in order to help free them. Are you, you know, I think Father Mike is famous for saying, you know, we are the watchers on the wall, and that's exactly what it comes down to. But are you not just willing to watch, but are you willing to jump into the line of firing to take that spiritual bullet in lieu of another person?
Yeah, and Malekai Martin also pointed out that you'll know when you're in the presence of someone who's afflicted, because once you enter that room and you feel that just unyielding hatred, yeah, that it wants to kill you, you'll know.
Yeah, and the reason he says that is really like he actually goes into detail in this in the in those appendices, and it's the fact that why do the demons hate humanity? And the ultimate answer he gives is that he doesn't know. He said that it could be because of various different reasons, but the ultimate reason is that we participate in the grace of God and we uh embrace that humanness that Christ gave to us. Yes, and it's that absolute hatred of that in which drives them to corrupt and to putrefy and decay.
And there's one last thing, because I'm glad that we got on this topic, because there's one last quote that I want to read here.
JJ, before you read that quote, you mind if I propose an analogy to you? Sure. Of so I view it in this manner. So I I say all the time I'm a huge like classics person. I I enjoy reading the commentaries of Julius Caesar. Julius Caesar did nothing wrong.
Well, you mean it now? A2 Brutte, yeah.
A2 Bruté. But no, what I wanted what I was getting at was I'm gonna hate myself for doing this, but let's take Caesar as Satan, correct? And let's take the demons as his legions. Right. Caesar has a specific goal. Each legionary that works for Caesar is not necessarily in line with his goals, right? He doesn't really care about his goals. All he really cares about is one, I don't want to get punished because I'll probably get flogged and crucified. And two, I'm getting some sort of paycheck out of this.
And three, I possibly enjoy it. So I'm not trying to answer Father Malachi Martin's question, but I immediately think back to antiquity and conflicts between like Rome and the Gallic tribes and Carthage. Did the legionaries necessarily hate the Carthaginians? Probably not. Did they necessarily hate the Celts? Some of them might. Of, but I think it's a matter of potentially fearing their commander as opposed to the opposite.
Well, and I actually I think it goes a step beyond that, and this is kind of an even better introduction to this quotation. In this most intimate of all confrontations, with mind pitted directly against mind, will against will, a sudden shift in the intelligence of one's adversary is unmistakable, more so than in a confrontation so unsubt that words are needed. This difference of spirits from one another to the on the basis of intelligence seems to accumulate in the servile, almost wooden allegiance to the quote Lord of all knowledge, unquote. What was accepted?
What in the world JJ? You changed your voice. Whoa.
Yeah, I had to throw in a little bit of uh special effects there.
Oh, you freaking out. What you know what, JJ? You know what, JJ. There you go. I mean, I'm about to bring mine out too. But but give us a heads up next time. Well one thing one thing that we need to understand is this, and everything that JJ has said, everything that he read is is it's spot on. But I'm gonna break it down to where to the level that I can understand it. And we we gotta understand order, and and and your speculation is absolutely spot on and correct. I'm gonna tell you 99.9% of the time, if someone is possessed, there's not just one demon.
And here's the reason why is because just as much as the kingdom of heaven loves and goes by order, so does the inferno. I may be possessed by something, or some demon, so to speak. However, there's another one over that one. This one may be giving me all kind of torment, but who is the one behind the torment? And that's what you gotta understand. And and people want to talk about uh legions and legions and legions. Well, you first of all, you need to understand the word legions. What's that mean? More than one, okay.
I may be uh possessed, and uh I got a serious problem with pornography and lust that leads me to mutilate and uh abuse women uh sexually, okay. There's uh there's something behind that, if you will, which we know is a demon, but however that's something behind that this is uh dispute resolution one-on-one, if you will. Behind that one is a root. Does that make sense to you? There there's there's another one there that's the boss, so to speak. Let's say that most of the time my torment is coming in the nighttime and in my dreams, and even when I'm awake sometimes, and these visions come to me.
Well, because of what you're going through, because of what you're doing, that root, we have what's on the surface, we have what's affecting me, we know what's we know what I'm doing, but however, to prove the point that there's more than one demon, there's a root behind that, and that root behind all that lust and that pornography and that in the middle of the night stuff. Who does it explain? And that is the ruler, so to speak, versus the principality that's making me carry out those incidents. Does that make sense?
It it does, and especially if you think about it in these terms, the preternatural, these entities have they do not have physical bodies, they have never once been human. And so, you know, if we talk about, you know, I think Malachi Martin says, you know, if you mention 217 million Americans, then you're talking about 217 million individual people. However, when you're talking about the infernal, the kingdom, they can substitute in and out. It may be one, it may be an entire host. You don't know, and nor do they make that kind of distinction, right?
They're calls, they can interchangeably use the words I and we and they. It doesn't matter because they are not individual bodies, these are wills made manifest. Yes, exactly, exactly. Very good, very good description.
We've talked about a whole lot here, but the last the what I really want to close out with is bringing it back the entire conversation and framing it in the sense of how or why the free will serves a barrier or as a shield, and this is why I was kind of alluding to in the very beginning that I could be thinking about this in the wrong direction.
So I've always thought of it as we are given free will by the creator, and that is invalid, however, the demonic can make us doubt that free will or the if uh the efficientness of that free will, or make us treat it as mere psychology, and so we can get around it. But what if instead, so and I think that's true, but what if we need to shift our thinking about that a tad bit in the sense of you know, Martin himself says that those who come closer to perfectly possessed, they can get along fine in human society, yeah, yeah.
But there is something still there, and I think it goes back to your question, Chris, of how can you tell you're dealing with something? It's because it's kind of like Hidden Valley syndrome or uncanny valley syndrome, it's not ranch. I thought it was I thought it was Thousand Island, it could be any of them, I don't know, but uh it's uncanny valley in the sense that you can tell that there is just something very wrong with the situation, and it's the fact that these things are are attacking our humanness, right?
Our entire identity and that which ties us to the creator, that is what it's physically attacking, it's trying to sever that so that it can then corrupt and putrefy and denigrate the creator through us, and that's how it's you know able to do so. It's by minimizing that humanness, so it doesn't matter how well they can mimic it, they will always appear as off because they are the furthest thing removed from humanness. Yeah, and I just wanted to get y'all's thoughts around that, and then we can sort of go out.
Yeah, when it comes to free will, but that is one of the prerequisites for possession. Yeah, you have to give them permission, which is is weird to hear, but many different exorcists like Father Vincent Lamper or Father Chad Ribeker, they they've all said that you have to give them permission before to even get to that step, which is why we have those different stages of obsession, oppression, and possession. It's beating you down mentally first, and then when it gets to beating you mentally, it's gonna start beating you physically.
It's beating you into submission to where you submit and give it that right over you.
And that agreement does not have to come visit verbally, it can just be a mental acquiescence, that's all it needs.
And I totally agree with that, and I wanna I want to interject something. Josh just read the whole explanation, and and and part of that I have a hard time with, and it is it is the the choosing part, because here's the way I personally see it, and from my own experience, if you will. Sometimes we blow it over and say, Well, we we got to agree to be possessed. You know what I'm saying? We've got to give up. Here's my two cents worth on that. When we get to a point to where we are so beat down, JJ, we get to a point to where we really can't make a rational decision.
I have been so oppressed by the demonic, I'm so obsessed by now. It is tearing me apart, and someone that is in that state, you can't explain where you are. I can't explain to you where they are. All I know is they're suffering big time, and then this thing appears before me or whispers in my ear, I can take it all away. Now that that part is where everything comes into play. Do do I want to continue to go down this temporal road of everyday torment and not even think about the eternal part?
Or do I want to think about the eternal part with Christ first to help me make that decision now to stop and continue the fight? Now, with that being said, you got to hear the heart of the exorcist. We're all gonna make a bad decision, but if I am suffering so much, I even I even said this today, JJ. If I could even get 50% relief from whatever procedure, I would do it. That's how I would explain that. And people that I can assure you that 90% of the people really don't want to submit and be possessed.
The 10% would be those that want to give their life over to Satan and do their church thing, if that makes sense to you.
It does. I mean, we as we as humans, we one of the things that makes us different, it's not so much language, but it's the fact that we shape our own microcosm. Yes, we create our own reality, yeah. Yeah, the fact that something can come in and modify that and reframe it in a way where nothing else matters but us.
Right. That's a great analogy, JJ. You Chris, what are your thoughts on all that?
I concur with y'all, to be honest with you. See, I I mean, just listening to you guys talk and and share your opinions has just been really enlightening throughout this entire show. To the point where at some points at a loss of words, you know what I mean? So, I mean, I really enjoyed this discussion.
And if if if uh you don't mind, I would I would I would like for you to do something for me personally. Sure. When you have time, just think about this episode, and I would love for you to to send me an email and ask me any questions that you may have for the infernal, the demotiacts and exorcisms. Any questions, any anything that you would like to know better? I'll I really want you to send it to me. And I would like to share it with JJ. And shoot, man, we can even make it we can we we could even make that another episode, JJ. Just answering questions.
Yeah.
How would you like that? But but I really want to have you share your thoughts and your mind on this subject. And that way we can give you a correct and order-field answer for anything that you may have.
Yeah. And I'm willing to do that. Oh, absolutely. That would that would actually sound that sounds pretty good.
Alrighty. So let's go through closing. And Father Mike and Deacon Josh, if y'all can tell us how listeners can find you, where they can find you.
Oh, well, great. Well, I am Father Mike Birdsong. I'm the pastor or rector, if you will, of St. Michael's in Thomaston, Georgia. And you can find me on Facebook as Michael Birdsong. You can also go to the website Becoming a House of Prayer dot com. Anyway, just Google Becoming a House of Prayer and you can find me. And also you can find Deacon Josh as well as myself in uh bookpatch.
com and just search out Michael Bird song, and you can see the five books that I've written, as well as a study guide for the demonic, in which JJ and I are working together to increase the knowledge and wisdom of that book. And in one day, we went from 20 pages to over 75 pages. So it's growing with great knowledge. So uh just remember becoming house of prayer and the book patch duck in St. Michael's, and you can find this beautiful saint that is before you right now.
Well, and I will also add that Father Birdsong also runs the Ending the Curse podcast, yes, which is phenomenal. And I want to throw in one last shout out that Deacon Josh has just opened up a brand new Etsy shop where he is selling some of his absolutely wondrous rosaries and prayer beads, and I have ordered them already, and I cannot wait to get my hands on them. I've shared that in our Discord, and they are just absolutely beautiful.
So yes, he's doing a great job, Chris. You look like a bishop with that red shirt and white collar around your neck. My liverpool jersey. Okay, I was about to say, should I call you Cardinal Chris?
Hey, Mr.
Chris, where can people find you? Sure. Listeners, you can find the wandering road podcast on all podcast platforms. We are also on social media. You could find us on Facebook by searching The Wandering Road. We are on Twitter or X, as that moron calls it now, at TW Road Podcast. We are on instant, we're on Instagram. You could search for us there at TW Road Podcast as well.
If you want to get a hold of us via email, or if you want to be a guest on the show or share your stories, or if you have any questions or any topics you'd like for us to cover, you could reach us at twroadpodcast at gmail.com. And JJ, since this will be a joint publication, where can my listeners find you?
So Southern Demonology has is a podcast that's been in existence since 2017 and is available on all podcasting platforms. You can also find us at southerndemonology.com where you can send me a an email with questions, comments, concerns, critiques, whatever else you may have, and you will find ways to listen to us on all platforms or on the website itself, or find us on our various social media pages. We're on everything but Twitter because I refuse to be on Twitter anymore for obvious reasons, but anyway, yeah, we're all over the place.
So absolutely, you know, I just I just want to throw in there real quickly to our listeners that if you send an email to any one of these guys, they will answer. Absolutely. So uh just just uh remember that. And these are a great group of guys, and I love them to death.
I feel like I'm their pastor, so I gotta I gotta protect them in a very real way you are, Father Mike. I can tell you that for an absolute fact. Absolutely, and I will I will say that actually I have been doing more and more consultations, so and I'm not talking about for money or for fame or for anything else. If you are suffering from something, I I take privacy very seriously, not a word will escape from my lips. You can contact, and then if I need to, I I bring in Father Mike and we can discuss it as a group.
So there's always help out there, and it's not people that unlike some, you know, insist upon money or anything else. We do it because we love you, we want to make sure that you're fine.
And folks, if you do reach out, like JJ said, you know, we're not gonna judge you, we're not gonna make fun of anybody. We will if you want to stay anonymous, we will keep you that way. But thank you for tuning in, folks. If you've listened to the entire podcast this far, we greatly appreciate it and hope everyone enjoyed today's episode with JJ, myself, Father Mike, and Deacon Josh. Thanks for listening, everyone. Awesome.
Thank you for listening to Southern Demonology. Find us online at Southern Demonology.com, which offers links to all of our social media and episodes. Southern Demonology is fully owned, produced, and edited by myself. And the intro and outro music are composed by me as well. If you have a moment, please rate, like, and share this podcast, as it is the best way to help support my work. As always, I am JJ, and it has been a pleasure to speak to you today.