Demonology 101

Speaker 10:08

Are you interested in angels, demons, ghosts, spirits, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, influence, <span data-t="20.

6">and how to protect against the unknown? If so, then welcome to Southern Demonology, the podcast that explores <span data-t="31.

0">all of this and more.

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Speaker 12:19

Hello and welcome back to the inaugural episode of season 5 of the Southern Demonology Podcast. As <span data-t="148.

2">always, I am your host, JJ. I do have some wonderful surprises in store for this particular season.

In fact, I was going to start off this one with one of the most disturbing events <span data-t="164.

4">that have happened to me in at least the last 24 years or so. But I realized I <span data-t="172.

7">needed some extra time to document all of this correctly. So I have moved up in the schedule <span data-t="180.

3">this shared conversation that Chris from the Wandering Road podcast. If you have never checked them out <span data-t="188.

6">before, I highly recommend it. Chris and I, since meeting last year, have become extremely tight friends, <span data-t="200.

4">and the work that him and Dean do over at TWR is amazing. But this conversation that Chris <span data-t="210.

6">and I had, which will be jointly published on both of our podcasts, and I moved it up <span data-t="217.

0">for a few reasons. First, it is a longer conversation, and I thought that would hopefully be a <span data-t="223.

0">nice gift for those who listen to me regularly. Second, it serves as a decent introduction not <span data-t="231.

8">only to my own podcast, but to the study of demonology as a whole. And as I've been <span data-t="238.

9">away for the last month and a half crazily working, I thought that this might be a good <span data-t="245.

0">way to slowly acclimate everyone back into my usual list of topics and thought processes on this matter.

I have had a series of guest appearances on other podcast shows in that intervening time, and <span data-t="261.

4">I will have a sampling of them down below in the show notes if you would like to <span data-t="265.

8">check that out. But without further ado, let's go ahead and get into the main topic for today <span data-t="273.

4">with Chris from the Wandering Road Podcast, which I call Demonology 101.

Speaker 24:43

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Wandering Road Podcast. I'm your host, Chris, and for <span data-t="290.

1">today's show, I'm joined by my good friend JJ from Southern Demonology. And for today, we're going <span data-t="297.

3">to be having a general discussion about demonology. We're going to tackle ancient demonology, potential dangers, maybe <span data-t="307.

5">some divination tools sprinkled in here and there. But other than that, we're going to have a <span data-t="314.

6">general overall discussion. But I want to do a preface. These are our opinions. So I want to <span data-t="323.

4">make that loud and clear from the beginning. We are not telling people what to do. We are <span data-t="330.

8">not giving anyone any type of advice. So please do not take it as such. Use your best <span data-t="337.

9">judgment when you delve into these things because they are dangerous. But other than that, I hope <span data-t="344.

1">you enjoy today's discussion. How are you doing tonight, JJ?

Speaker 15:47

I am doing fine. Though I don't know why you started off the show with an obvious lie.

We're friends. What do you mean? No, we are very good friends. I agree that way. I <span data-t="362.

9">will say that yes, although these are opinions, they are highly educated and informed opinions. So, yes, <span data-t="373.

7">in a legal sense, this is not official quote unquote advice. It is tried and true, at least <span data-t="383.

0">from my perspective, opinions on these matters. And so take that as far as you want.

Speaker 26:31

Yeah, I I completely agree with you. I agree with that sentiment. But let's dive right into <span data-t="397.

3">it, man. So we hear the term demonology a lot in the paranormal space. Uh a lot of <span data-t="406.

6">podcasters and people that go ghost hunting and whatnot like to use the term a lot. And some <span data-t="413.

7">of them may not truly know the meaning. So why don't you give us a quick definition or <span data-t="419.

9">explanation of what demonology actually entails from your perspective?

Speaker 17:04

Sure. Just like anyone who would be familiar with uh Latin roots, demonology is at base the <span data-t="432.

5">study of demons, meaning that we attempt to categorize as much information and knowledge around the phenomena <span data-t="447.

2">as we possibly can. And this is especially difficult to do as unless you possess some hypersense <span data-t="461.

4">about the world around us and you can label that to be whatever you want it to be, <span data-t="466.

6">doing so is extremely difficult. And so just right off the bat, I will say that if you <span data-t="475.

5">are going off and searching for books about demology and you start pulling up grimwards from the <span data-t="487.

0">Middle Ages, red flag number one. If you go off and pick up some modern book in which <span data-t="495.

8">starts going off and listing, oh, this demon has these characteristics and is able to do this <span data-t="502.

4">and appears in these times, red flag number two. I would say that the vast so when it <span data-t="509.

0">comes to the Middle Ages, a lot of this crap was just made up while sell. And when <span data-t="515.

0">it comes to these modern books, can't say it's made up, but I question exactly where they get <span data-t="520.

9">their information. And I would challenge anyone to prove anything to me on that front. And then <span data-t="527.

3">there's the second definition, which is looking at the past and attempting to clarify the concepts and <span data-t="542.

6">beliefs that surround these entities that are labeled as demons. And that is the category that I <span data-t="552.

9">fit myself into. I'm what I tokenly refer to as an ancient demonologist. I look at text, I <span data-t="563.

0">look at biblical histories, and I attempt to clarify and make the connections thereof.

Speaker 29:30

So in your research, piggybacking off of just of what you just said, looking at biblical texts <span data-t="577.

9">and ancient text, are there certain things that when you do when you do your research and when <span data-t="583.

8">you did your research that kind of stuck out to you that like, huh, this might be something <span data-t="591.

0">demonic?

Speaker 19:52

Well, I would say the first thing that is surprising to anyone who especially looks at the <span data-t="597.

4">Hebrew Bible is Hebrew Bible does not have a word for demon. And that's probably gonna come to <span data-t="604.

8">a big surprise to the vast majority of people that are listening to this. The the closest that <span data-t="610.

6">you can come is the word Shair, which literally refers to like a pan-like or fawn-like goat <span data-t="622.

5">entity or goat demon. But otherwise, there is not a general reference term for demon that is used.

Does that mean that there are no references to the demonic in the Hebrew Bible? I would <span data-t="640.

9">not say that. There are quite a few. If you take Psalm 91, for example, it lists the <span data-t="650.

3">four major terrors. Terror that flieth, you know, by uh the you know, that walks at noon, blah <span data-t="658.

1">blah blah. All of those are references to the demonic, which makes sense because Second Temple Judaism, <span data-t="670.

9">which is this very odd time period that's highly anachronistic, which actually still is the source of <span data-t="683.

6">a lot of our concepts in modern times of what demonology and angelogy truly represent, originally presented. <span data-t="695.

8">So that would be the first thing that I would say. So you have to, these are references <span data-t="704.

3">that a lot of people at the time would have fully grasped and understand that, oh, this is <span data-t="711.

5">what you're talking about, the arrow that flieth by day. Oh, that is obviously a reference to <span data-t="719.

2">Lilit or Lilith, as we would say now. But these are things in which a casual peruser of <span data-t="730.

2">the Bible would read and not understand. And this is one of the reasons why I stand very <span data-t="737.

7">strongly behind the opinion that in Protestantism there's this idea that oh, anybody can pick up a <span data-t="747.

7">Bible and read it and understand it fully. No, that is not the case. Because it a a <span data-t="755.

4">lot of it depends upon the translation that you're reading, but there is a very specific set of <span data-t="763.

4">knowledge that you need to have in order to even begin to pierce through the words and try <span data-t="773.

3">to get to the meaning. Some of that is understanding the sits and leavens or the the situation <span data-t="780.

2">at hand, and it's just understanding the historical perspective in which these texts were written in. Another <span data-t="789.

8">part of it is knowing the timelines in which the that produced these texts. And uh there's a <span data-t="797.

1">lot of other factors, but just in general, reading something that was written in another language and <span data-t="802.

6">then translated into English. I always had professors that refer to that as kissing through the veil. <span data-t="809.

5">You get the idea of what a kiss truly is, you most certainly do not get full contact <span data-t="817.

1">with the lips. And so there is something that is missing in that exchange.

Speaker 213:44

That's an interesting way of putting it. I've never heard that term before, kissing through the veil. <span data-t="830.

6">That's a good one. So essentially the notion is like when you read a translated text, you're <span data-t="838.

3">not really getting the full grasping of it because of mistranslations and whatnot.

Speaker 114:05

True. Well, it's not even not only just mistranslations, there are words that have no equivalent in <span data-t="855.

9">English, and so you're having to grasp at the proper way of how the original authors were <span data-t="866.

7">writing, and then it's up to the translator to figure out the best way to convey that to <span data-t="876.

0">the listening audio, I mean to the reading audience. And you can find copious examples of this <span data-t="882.

6">within modern works. For example, if you're reading a manga or if you are watching an anime, <span data-t="891.

4">and if you know the Japanese and then you're reading what's on screen, vastly different affairs. And <span data-t="900.

3">sometimes that is justified because they are the translator is attempting to convey what would actually be <span data-t="908.

2">said in English as opposed to the native Japanese, and other times you're like, what drugs was <span data-t="916.

0">this translator on? Because there is no way those two are equivalent, or there'd be a much <span data-t="923.

7">better way of saying that, even in English, that is still truer to what would be said in <span data-t="930.

9">native Japanese as opposed to whatever was actually being done. And there's a lot of offenses in <span data-t="939.

7">terms of that regard. That's why I am always a more literal translator. I try to stay as <span data-t="947.

6">close as I can to the source language while still getting the idea of cross of what it <span data-t="954.

6">would be in English, but that's a very fine line, and you don't know who these translators are, <span data-t="962.

2">and so you don't know where they fall on that spectrum. They may be completely unhinged from <span data-t="968.

6">reality, and they're like, Oh, well, that sounds kind of right, or heck, at worse, they're using <span data-t="973.

6">Google Translate, and they're like, Oh, yeah, that's perfect right there. And yeah, it never works out well.

Speaker 216:20

So that's that's interesting because that's always one of my big fears about reading an ancient text, <span data-t="988.

2">whether it be a historical text, because I'm a huge classics junkie, and also reading like any <span data-t="997.

3">religious text, obviously translated a thousand times over, that you'll always I want to say at one <span data-t="1006.

6">point in time or another, you'll probably run into a translator that has to interject themselves at <span data-t="1014.

6">one point or another, because they don't like the way a specific person is portrayed or a <span data-t="1023.

2">specific event or a specific word. So it it makes me it makes me wonder.

Speaker 117:10

And that's why I prefer translations that show the homework, and that way you, as the <span data-t="1038.

6">reader, can come to a more educated decision. For example, this is why I like the RSV <span data-t="1047.

7">and the NRSV when it comes to translations of the Bible. I know that this was done <span data-t="1055.

7">by a very scholarly group of in of academics, they were based out of Yale, they have <span data-t="1063.

7">copious amounts of notes, uh footnotes, so that you can see exactly what's going on. Because when <span data-t="1070.

3">you come across a passage that could be troublesome, and I don't mean from a modern read, <span data-t="1079.

0">I'm talking about just troublesome to theology in general. If you don't have that context, then you <span data-t="1086.

2">would nine times out of ten, you may not even understand that fact. You come across Genesis <span data-t="1092.

7">6, and you've heard it usually so many times that you just kind of blow past it. <span data-t="1099.

3">But this uh I mean, that one chapter has resulted in more books of the pseudopigrapha and <span data-t="1106.

2">more mid-rashes and more theological discussions than almost anything else when you take it out of context.

And if you're just someone who's reading the Bible, you'd be like, Okay, sons of God. <span data-t="1119.

0">No, no, no, it goes so much deeper than that. What in the world are you talking about?

And this is the kind of stuff in which I'm talking about, but moreover, within the <span data-t="1129.

7">Hebrew Bible in particular, you have over a hundred hoxagamina, words that are used one time, and <span data-t="1140.

5">you can look at other similar Semitic languages to get what the roots of those words mean, <span data-t="1151.

7">and then you can try to crop try to cross-apply it back into Hebrew, so we have <span data-t="1159.

3">an idea of what they mean, but yet they're only used one time, and so we don't <span data-t="1166.

4">have a true sense of what that word truly meant in context, or there are simply pieces <span data-t="1175.

1">of knowledge that we have lost over the years when it comes to the scapegoat, Azazel being <span data-t="1182.

3">sent off into the desert. It's Azazel.

Speaker 219:45

I'm kidding.

Speaker 119:47

We don't know what that refers to. Is the goat Azazel? Is Azazel a demon? Is it <span data-t="1196.

3">there's a lot of huge ambiguity in that particular statement. Yeah. Uh without that kind of knowledge <span data-t="1207.

7">to it, that's either going to fly completely over your head, or it's not going to be <span data-t="1214.

8">called out for you to care about if you don't know. Meanwhile, I'll get off my soapbox <span data-t="1220.

4">on that particular topic.

Speaker 220:22

No, it's all good, man. I like I like to hear you talk about that stuff because <span data-t="1227.

4">you're actually educated in it. So it it enlightens enlightens me a lot. But one thing I <span data-t="1234.

2">wanted to say was say you have like an ancient text and it gets translated over and <span data-t="1240.

2">over and over, and it's like an ancient text about demons or something like that. And it <span data-t="1245.

0">turns out like midway down the line, like a thousand years ago, the person doing the translation <span data-t="1251.

1">was such an asshole, and like he hated all of these like quote unquote demons or spirits <span data-t="1256.

0">and just turned them all into these like heinous fucking creatures. And now in today's like modern <span data-t="1261.

9">world, like they all get a bad rap, but like in the past, they were all super chill.

Because anytime you mention the goat, I think a pan and like Pan was just like <span data-t="1272.

0">was just a Seder. And now it's like morphed into this, they use it as an image <span data-t="1280.

5">of the devil, uh the Baphamet, and it's just been twisted into this creature of darkness. When <span data-t="1287.

8">if you go into Greek mythology, Satyrs were just horny bastards chasing nymphs around. Like they weren't <span data-t="1294.

2">like like they just get such a bad rap. So, like huge erections, yes.

Speaker 121:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were the original phanders.

Speaker 221:46

That they were, that they were. But continuing on the topic of the ancient world, ancient <span data-t="1312.

2">demonology specifically. I know you've taught we've talked on offline, yes, we we talked besides. Being on <span data-t="1320.

4">a podcast, people. You mentioned about correct me if I'm wrong, but is it Ethiopia where they <span data-t="1327.

0">do some sort of exorcism where they trap demons into squirrels or something like that? I feel <span data-t="1334.

2">like I'm butchering this dude.

Speaker 122:16

Oh no. So yeah, they absolutely do. It's not exorcisms though. The Ethiopic Orthodox Church, they <span data-t="1346.

0">are highly unique amongst not only Orthodox, other Orthodox religions, but just Christianity in general. Because <span data-t="1358.

6">A, they have the largest corpus of holy canon that exists. Because unlike every other place, they <span data-t="1370.

5">believe that all books of the pseudopigrapha are also holy scripture. So this includes First Enoch, <span data-t="1379.

4">Jubilees, Ascension of Isaiah, Tales of the Twelve Patriarchs, and the list just keeps going on and <span data-t="1387.

1">on and on. In addition to like you know, the Catholics, they believe in the Apocrypha plus <span data-t="1393.

4">the Bible. Protestants only believe in the standard books of the Bible. And then the Ethiopic Orthodox <span data-t="1401.

4">Church takes that to an entirely new level. More than that, though, the church also kind of <span data-t="1408.

3">has this native belief that in addition to Christ being the Messiah, he was also the greatest <span data-t="1418.

7">magician that ever walked the earth. And there is a very rich magical tradition within the church. <span data-t="1427.

8">And there are these priests, a very specific group of priests that are called Dibtura. And when <span data-t="1435.

8">Christ said, I give authority of you know over demons to you, they take that literally. And <span data-t="1442.

3">so they have a ritual in which they slaughter a goat, they skin it, they then use <span data-t="1449.

8">a couple of eggs and a bottle of wine, and they trap a demon, a wandering demon. <span data-t="1456.

8">They embed its spirit into the scroll using religious iconography, and usually that's the seal of Solomon, <span data-t="1466.

5">plus red and black text, which has been directly inherited from Zoroastrianism as magical writings. And <span data-t="1477.

3">then that traps the demon into the scroll, and therefore the demon powers God's will. And these <span data-t="1487.

2">scrolls are written for a variety of purposes. The vast majority of them are protection scrolls, <span data-t="1495.

1">especially for pregnant women, and they protect against all manners of creatures, whether it be Barya and <span data-t="1503.

8">Legawan, which are the two serpents that surround the earth, constantly swallowing each other's tail, otherwise <span data-t="1512.

1">in Greek referred to as Ouroboros, to Shoteli, which are a race of baby-killing demons. The other <span data-t="1522.

9">purpose is that it is a scroll that is carried or buried with the person that is <span data-t="1530.

9">called the Lephophitic, which is the Banlet of Righteousness. And it is a book which, kind of <span data-t="1538.

8">like Catholics with their scapulas, functions to teach the pe it's essentially it's a group of eight <span data-t="1548.

2">magical spells that is meant to get people through the narrow gate of heaven. And it's a <span data-t="1556.

2">fascinating book. I've long loved it.

Speaker 226:04

Yeah, that that's fascinating. So from my perspective, it's interesting to see how over time demons <span data-t="1574.

7">and demonology is addressed. Because correct me if I'm wrong, in antiquity is very much so, like, <span data-t="1582.

7">okay, this is what we do when we encounter this type of stuff. And now I want <span data-t="1588.

4">to segue into our time period. And all the this is probably gonna piss some people off, <span data-t="1596.

8">but I I don't know what other way to say it, but new wave or new age of <span data-t="1603.

4">demonology and tackling these types of things in in the sense that if you go online and <span data-t="1611.

9">you go Google like demonologists or something like that, I'm sure you'll get a plethora of just <span data-t="1618.

4">average people that are just thinking they're going about the trade, but I'm at a loss for <span data-t="1625.

8">words because I'm trying I'm trying to keep it in the sense Let me step in for <span data-t="1631.

4">a second.

Speaker 127:12

Yeah, go ahead. It's very trendy in the paranormal world to call yourself a demonologist when <span data-t="1642.

6">90% of them that I have ever ran across wouldn't be able to tell a demon from <span data-t="1651.

1">a random bump in the night. That's the best way I can charitably characterize.

Speaker 227:42

Yeah, I I mean that's a good way of putting it. And you and I are on <span data-t="1667.

8">TikTok, and you come across these pages that you share with me, and vice versa. And we <span data-t="1674.

3">came across this one page where I think you know where I'm going with this, where this <span data-t="1681.

4">person claims to use demon magic. Like they summon demons.

Speaker 128:06

Yeah, I remember I almost blocked that out of my brain.

Speaker 228:10

That's fascinating to me. The concept that you think you're strong enough to summon something from <span data-t="1700.

6">the perternatural world and can control it and can make a deal with it that'll just benefit you.

Speaker 128:29

Oh, even worse. So this woman who claims to have practiced both angel magic and demon <span data-t="1718.

2">magic for I think it was a decade, she said or something like that. Yeah, I think so.

She claimed that, oh, most people that try to summon demons or utilize them think that <span data-t="1732.

0">everything involves a deal, that you have to sacrifice a portion of yourself. However, I don't think <span data-t="1739.

1">of it like that. I just think of these things as archetypes in which I'm able to <span data-t="1746.

1">just to wish something, and I don't serve at their pleasure, they serve at my pleasure. And <span data-t="1754.

8">I'm like, wow, I really don't want to be there when you learn the error of your <span data-t="1763.

2">ways, because I cannot. So you're dealing with something that is infinitely more powerful than yourself, <span data-t="1773.

1">and then you're just saying, oh yeah, I can make them do whatever I want because they're <span data-t="1777.

8">just here to serve me. No, they are not, they may give that impression for a little <span data-t="1784.

3">bit, but that's just so that they can worm their way into your lives, and after that, <span data-t="1790.

1">you're screwed.

Speaker 229:52

Yeah, they always want something, whether it's your soul, your body, something. Or or to just <span data-t="1802.

5">straight up harm you. Like it there is nothing that there's nothing good that will come about that.

I I want to put it that way.

Speaker 130:11

Not at all. In fact, I think kind of a a perfect example of this is in <span data-t="1819.

6">Father Malachi Martin's book Hostage to the Devil, one of the stories is of an avatar demon, <span data-t="1830.

9">which do I know if those things exist? No, I do not. Um first time I'd ever <span data-t="1836.

4">heard of such a thing, but it was essentially the herald of a much more powerful entity <span data-t="1845.

3">that was sent to this person in order to pave the way for the greater power. And <span data-t="1853.

8">this thing was essentially trying to ingratiate itself to the man in the in the story, and <span data-t="1864.

9">eventually, when it wasn't getting anywhere, it just began to resort to irritating the ever-living hell <span data-t="1873.

0">out of this person to the point where the guy had to be exercised to be taken <span data-t="1880.

0">care of. But it's just an example. I mean, there are so many ways of everything going <span data-t="1889.

3">horribly for an individual. And whether you're talking about from the Catholic perspective or even the <span data-t="1899.

3">Islamic perspective with Jinn, rarely, I mean, with Jinn, of course, you you have both can be <span data-t="1907.

4">good, but they more than likely are not.

Speaker 231:51

See, with Jinn, I I view them differently. Because when I for one of my classes, like <span data-t="1917.

6">we had to read the Torah, we had to read the the Bible, and we had to read <span data-t="1924.

3">the Quran. And when you read the Quran, it it says that jinn were you had angels <span data-t="1931.

4">made of light, you had man made of the earth, like dirt and mud and whatnot, and <span data-t="1937.

4">then you had the jinn that was made of fire. And to me, jinn are not really demons.

They well, according to Islam too, they're not really demons, they're just a creation like humans.

Speaker 132:32

So, yeah, yeah, that is absolutely true. However, jinn are the closest things to demons that <span data-t="1960.

6">you find in Islam. I'll put it that way. So I think that you can make the <span data-t="1967.

4">case that they are when they are evil, I would say that they can be just as <span data-t="1974.

8">evil as anything that you find in Christianity. No, that's a great clarifying point.

Speaker 233:01

Yeah, but yeah, that that does make sense. Like if you listeners, if you ever get a <span data-t="1986.

4">chance and look up the different types of djinn that are out there, some of them can <span data-t="1993.

8">get really, really terrifying.

Speaker 133:16

Oh, in fact, so just an example of the non-terrifying aspect. Uh, recently, well, a couple <span data-t="2004.

9">of months ago, before the year turned over, I had a meeting with a former coworker, and <span data-t="2013.

1">we were always friends, but it was good to be able to catch up again. And he <span data-t="2017.

8">is he's a Muslim, and we began talking about some djinn, and he was telling me the <span data-t="2027.

2">story that one of his friends had gone through that supposedly the guy's grandfather had married a <span data-t="2038.

5">djinn, and ever since then, the rest of his progeny, the rest of his line, had been <span data-t="2047.

0">protected by this djinn, and that is not terribly uncommon kind of story, especially when you come <span data-t="2056.

7">to like Turkish Islam, you find a lot of more kind of magical and mystical practices involved. <span data-t="2063.

8">Uh, in fact, if you ever if you do still happen to have a Netflix account, not <span data-t="2069.

9">that I urge for that, there was a series of movies there called Dabe, and it was <span data-t="2076.

6">all about Jinn and the more terrifying aspects of gin. And uh, the first one was really <span data-t="2081.

8">good, second one's actually not that bad either. I think there are six of them total, but <span data-t="2085.

9">yeah, and they I've seen all six of them, yeah, and they are kind of typical Turkish <span data-t="2093.

0">Islamic depictions of the more terrifying aspects of the djinn.

Speaker 234:59

Dude, was it the first one when they like came back home to their mansion and they <span data-t="2104.

6">found that statue made of that grotesque looking statue thing made of like it looked like it <span data-t="2112.

2">was made of body parts or something like that? You remember that? It was so gross.

Speaker 135:21

But yeah, I mean, actually, I really like the first two movies in that series. Another <span data-t="2127.

7">really great one that kind of depicts the terror that a gin can depict is Shadow Over <span data-t="2136.

0">the Grave or Oh god, I forget the exact name, but it's set in 1970s, Iran or <span data-t="2144.

9">Iraq during the the war, and the husband goes off, and it's only the wife and and <span data-t="2152.

8">her two children, and they become terrorized by a ginn in the process and their apartment building.

Speaker 236:00

Is it during revolutionary Iran where the lady has to hide like her like exercise tapes <span data-t="2165.

9">and stuff?

Speaker 136:06

Like she had to like actually it depends because like at home she doesn't wear the full <span data-t="2171.

9">hijab or anything like that, right?

Speaker 236:14

Yes, yes, that's the one.

Speaker 136:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was phenomenal.

Speaker 236:17

It was real quick. If you I know I've sent you a couple of videos on on <span data-t="2183.

0">TikTok, but the creator on TikTok called Ibrahim Ka, he has like this like massive 80 video <span data-t="2193.

1">playlist called True Horrifying Stories, and probably 85% of them are about gym possession and encounters <span data-t="2201.

9">submitted by his followers. And one of the stories was from I think this girl in living <span data-t="2210.

8">in, I don't know if she was living in Pakistan or she might have been visiting Pakistan <span data-t="2216.

6">and like had this dream of this lady named Aisha that came to her and said that <span data-t="2226.

0">I'm a djinn and I've been dedicated to your family, like I was part of your family, <span data-t="2231.

8">and I'll forever protect your bloodline as long as I live. So it's really interesting that you <span data-t="2237.

1">brought that up. And it reminded me of that story that he posted saying that that was <span data-t="2243.

4">that was a real thing that people actually experience. Hmm. If I find it, I'll send it <span data-t="2249.

7">to you.

Speaker 137:30

Yeah, because honestly, I may have gotten that confused with my other conversation with my friend. <span data-t="2258.

8">Take it as the exact same thing. It sounds a little too familiar for comfort, I'll put <span data-t="2264.

0">it that way.

Speaker 237:45

It might have been the same thing, or it might have been like a real experience. So <span data-t="2271.

2">I think we could dive into the ranty portion of it with the dangers of it. We <span data-t="2277.

6">could see, I've never I'm not a fing demonologist, so I don't know the process of what <span data-t="2282.

1">the hell these people do.

Speaker 138:03

Like they just go around and like yelling at things, or like I don't I have seen <span data-t="2290.

7">a few different types of approaches. I have seen people that claim to be mediums and they're <span data-t="2301.

1">able to detect whether what they're dealing with is a demon or not. I've seen people that <span data-t="2311.

8">have used helper spirits to help them achieve the same results, whether that be a familiar or <span data-t="2321.

0">an animal spirit, or whether you believe in that stuff or not. I have met one person <span data-t="2327.

0">that kind of falls into that helper spirit kind of category who I actually believe, because he's <span data-t="2336.

3">a very genuine person, but I don't know that for sure. And then there are others that <span data-t="2345.

4">just claim to be very sensitive. Now, I will say that there are some definit, some basic <span data-t="2355.

4">definitions that a person can use to try to determine if something is demonic or not. Are <span data-t="2367.

8">there major reactions to religious artifacts? Big tip that you're probably dealing with the demonic.

Speaker 239:37

Gotcha.

Speaker 139:38

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Speaker 340:19

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Speaker 140:51

Try to cleanse a house of negative energy. Whatever the f that means. Does that have <span data-t="2460.

2">any effect or not? If it doesn't, you're probably dealing with something orders of magnitude more powerful <span data-t="2467.

4">than an attached or unattached entity in the house. But again, these are just guidelines, and everything <span data-t="2478.

4">is bloody different. But regardless, if you are do happen to be dealing with a demon, then <span data-t="2486.

0">there's a couple of guide rules that you absolutely have to follow. You don't engage with the <span data-t="2492.

6">gosh damn thing, you don't provoke it, you don't challenge it. You definitely don't challenge it, you <span data-t="2499.

1">don't listen to it, and you do everything that you essentially, at least if you come from <span data-t="2505.

7">the Catholic perspective, the only real thing that you can do is do a exorcism of locale. <span data-t="2516.

3">And that has to be done by a priest, a priest that has the full authority of <span data-t="2526.

5">the church behind him in order to perform that. That I had a conversation with Father Bertzong, <span data-t="2545.

8">who is an exorcist who lives in Georgia, who is a member of a charismatic offshoot of Catholicism.

And it was a really fascinating conversation.

Speaker 242:46

I listened to them twice. That's how much I enjoyed them.

Speaker 142:50

I do recall in that episode you shared a story of I am happy to serve as <span data-t="2579.

6">an example of what not to do. And when I was a much, much younger man, I am <span data-t="2586.

7">way too old now.

Speaker 243:08

Dude, you don't look a day over 25. Come on now.

Speaker 143:11

Yeah, the uh remind me were to send you the money to pay you for that comment.

Speaker 243:17

You can ven mummy.

Speaker 143:19

I am in my late 40s, and I feel every single one of those days, I am <span data-t="2604.

7">telling you. But anyway, when I was in God, probably 20s, I don't think I could have <span data-t="2613.

0">been yeah, late 20s, maybe 30 at the outset. I had gone to a holiday party at <span data-t="2623.

4">a friend's house who claimed to have been living in a haunted location. And like an idiot, <span data-t="2634.

1">I went around and began reciting the rite of exorcist. Of place or look out. And that <span data-t="2643.

4">is absolutely abjectly stupid for a few different reasons. First, anyone can go out and pick up <span data-t="2652.

4">the Roman ritual, which is the I'm going to say guidebook that is used by the Catholic <span data-t="2661.

2">Church when it comes to exorcism either of person or of place. However, the Roman ritual isn't <span data-t="2669.

7">going to do a lay person any bit of good. Because first, it is a it's a guidebook.

It's not a complete thing. It's not some magical ritual that you just put out into <span data-t="2688.

2">the ether, and suddenly that's going to make just everything go away on its own. It is <span data-t="2695.

8">a base framework that a priest can use in conjunction with his years of spiritual and pastoral <span data-t="2707.

6">training in order to attempt to resolve a situation. But it's not something that can be used <span data-t="2716.

3">just in toto or as it is, right? Second of all, you have to have the authority <span data-t="2723.

9">of the church. And third, I exposed myself to danger, and I exposed the people around me <span data-t="2744.

9">to danger. So it was abjectly stupid on quite a few different levels. I was blessed that <span data-t="2753.

1">nothing bad happened on either front, but I will say that as podcasters who deal with this <span data-t="2764.

4">topic on the regular, that is already dangerous enough. Just talking about these things. You know, I <span data-t="2776.

3">have had a couple of cases of strange medical situations that have erupted, one of which actually <span data-t="2786.

9">happened over the holidays before I got to publish this particular episode in question, where I <span data-t="2797.

2">mysteriously tore the cornea of my one good eye. And I have a deathly fear of going <span data-t="2805.

8">blind and have been have had that ever since I was a kid. And suddenly I couldn't <span data-t="2811.

8">see for a week, week and a half. Is that coincidence? It could be. Yeah, we have <span data-t="2993.

2">a prime example of needing Saint Michael, and that is in the case that originally inspired the Exorcist.

Speaker 250:04

Was it the exorcism of Roland Doe? I can't remember what his name is. I know he <span data-t="3008.

3">came out, his name was exposed.

Speaker 150:10

Don't remember what his name was, but when this exorcism was taking place at, I think <span data-t="3016.

8">it was at St. Xavier College, it had been going on for six weeks, couple of months, <span data-t="3026.

6">and they were getting nowhere. And this case was also highly unusual because it was actually the <span data-t="3036.

2">demon, because you have to get the demon to name itself in order to properly identify it <span data-t="3042.

5">so that you can get it cast out. It identified itself as Satan, which is highly, highly unusual.

But they were getting nowhere at all until the priests received a vision of Saint Michael <span data-t="3058.

3">as they were praying in the chapel. And that's where they knew they had reached the breakwaters, <span data-t="3065.

0">and something was actually going to be able to happen. And it happened that night. An exorcism <span data-t="3079.

7">is not an exciting prospect, it is not something that you do for fun, it is an <span data-t="3088.

9">act of loving sacrifice on the part of the priest. You're dealing with things that are so <span data-t="3096.

4">much greater than yourself. No part of that is going to be a pleasant experience. And you <span data-t="3104.

1">have a lot of these Yahoos that are running around thinking that, oh, they can do this themselves.

They have no preparation, they have no exit plan, as Father Bertzon likes to point out, <span data-t="3117.

4">they have no way of cleansing themselves, and they just go in and just think, oh yeah, <span data-t="3123.

7">I can do this. And even more egregious are those exact people that claim that oh I <span data-t="3130.

2">do it by my own authority. Why the fuck would that have any effect? It wouldn't. You <span data-t="3137.

4">are a lone individual. There is no power that you have in this situation, and it doesn't <span data-t="3145.

8">matter how many mystical woo-woo books that you read that you think gives you a tiny sliver <span data-t="3154.

2">of information because it's not going to help. And I'll tell you the reason why I so <span data-t="3159.

9">highly distrust any of these dictionaries of witchcraft or whatever else that come out, it's the fact <span data-t="3168.

1">that if you start writing a book on demons, it means that you have conversed with these <span data-t="3175.

8">things, which why in the world would you ever trust anything that one of these things ever <span data-t="3182.

8">would have to say? And two, how can I try how can I trust that you're not <span data-t="3187.

3">perfectly possessed yourself at this point? That you haven't entered into a deal to gain this type <span data-t="3193.

8">of knowledge. Everything about it just stinks to high heaven. You're either doing so for money, or <span data-t="3201.

0">you're doing so to mislead or to gain greater greater credit for yourself than what you deserve. <span data-t="3208.

4">Or you're a failed academic that goes on coast to coast AM trying to make a name <span data-t="3215.

8">for yourself. And I would say that the author of Evil Archaeology falls into that exact category. <span data-t="3224.

4">This woman, oh God, I I did an entire episode that just ripped this book to shreds <span data-t="3231.

3">because it is the worst thing that I have read in a very, very long time. Anyway, <span data-t="3238.

2">I will stop my rant now. I apologize.

Speaker 254:01

No, no, no. I in I enjoy listening to those rants because I mean what you're saying <span data-t="3247.

8">is not wrong. And one thing I wanted to bring up is in my episode 50, when I <span data-t="3256.

1">talked to Trev all the way from Ireland, he recounted that his family was deeply Catholic. And <span data-t="3265.

0">he grew up Catholic, and you know, church was a very big thing, and his parents made <span data-t="3270.

2">friends with, like he said in the episode, he like a collection of like nuns and priests. <span data-t="3277.

2">And there was a priest, I can't recall the name, I think it might have been McCulloch, <span data-t="3283.

4">that was an exorcist, I think, in either Kenya or Zimbabwe. And Trev said he was young <span data-t="3290.

5">at the time, so he may have been in his adolescence when he came to visit, and <span data-t="3296.

9">he talked to the father and asked, like, what do you think this is? And Trev said <span data-t="3304.

6">that he expected the answer, you know, your usual answer. That, you know, this is of d <span data-t="3311.

0">these are Satan, like this is of Satan, these are demons, yada yada, yada. And it was <span data-t="3315.

5">interesting that the guy said, I don't, I don't know. I don't know. And this is an <span data-t="3321.

7">ordained Catholic priest, and or like an appointed exorcist that he he he himself said he didn't know.

And one key thing that Trev mentioned is that the man was 45 years old, but he <span data-t="3339.

0">looked like he was 80. This doing this took so much out of him. And I think <span data-t="3345.

8">it was also Father Martin that said that anytime you engage in like an exorcism or anything <span data-t="3353.

2">involving that to get rid of demons, you a part of yourself, you're giving up a part <span data-t="3359.

8">of yourself.

Speaker 156:00

Oh, absolutely. In fact, in hostage to the devil, which oddly enough, it has the tagline <span data-t="3368.

3">of the possession and exorcism of five contemporary Americans, but it that the book actually has six <span data-t="3375.

8">different tales because the sixth comes into play in both the prologue and the epilogue, and it <span data-t="3384.

2">tells about a priest who encounters a spirit and then later exercises it again after it escaped <span data-t="3395.

0">in the beginning, and his joy for the priest's joy for life had been stripped. This can happen.

I mean, it's not only physical danger that a priest exposes himself to. Yep. That's the <span data-t="3440.

6">least of your worries because you can have your joy of life sucked away at a moment, <span data-t="3449.

8">and that's why I say that this is a loving act of sacrifice, it is not something <span data-t="3456.

8">to be entered into lightly because you will have something taken away from you. Now, Father Martin, <span data-t="3464.

9">he was actually asked, you know, if you say that you have performed a ludicrous amount of <span data-t="3471.

8">exorcisms, why are you able to do so many when others have done two or three and <span data-t="3480.

2">it robs them of this joy? And he was just like, Maybe I'm blessed. I I don't know.

I've always been a little suspicious of that answer. I don't know what the answer is. <span data-t="3493.

4">I'm not even going to hazard the guess to it. And you also just you have to <span data-t="3498.

3">be on the lookout for charlatans that are in this for some sort of either fame or <span data-t="3507.

3">financial gain. And I think the clearest example of this falls in the lap of Adam Lorraine Warren.

Speaker 258:37

You beat me to it. I added that topic while you were talking earlier.

Speaker 158:43

If you have ever had the displeasure of reading the book The Demonologist, it is the <span data-t="3531.

1">biggest load of shit that I have ever read next to evil archaeology. In the first part, <span data-t="3541.

1">in just the introduction, and that's as far as I got before throwing the book away. Ed <span data-t="3547.

0">is saying, Oh, there's these demonic spirits that were ripping down the hallway. And if any of <span data-t="3553.

4">that crap actually happened, it would make worldwide sensational news. But yet it didn't. He wrote it <span data-t="3562.

2">in the book where you can't the burden of proof is nowhere to be found. Oh, gee, <span data-t="3568.

0">I wonder why that is. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt because they <span data-t="3573.

1">did kind of further and at least to a small extent legitimize the idea of the study <span data-t="3582.

4">of the paranormal, or at least launch it into the limelight. But after that limelight had been <span data-t="3589.

0">achieved and they had financial estate suddenly on the line, I think shit just ran off the rails.

Speaker 259:56

But yeah, I agree with you about the Warrens. There were a few cases that I looked <span data-t="3601.

4">into, like the real cases, in which they urged people to go to the public. And it's <span data-t="3607.

6">like, well, you just made matters fucking worse for these people. I think it was the oh <span data-t="3614.

4">geez, it might have been the haunting in Connecticut situation where the people lived in a home <span data-t="3622.

6">that was converted from a funeral home, and their son had cancer, and he claimed that he <span data-t="3629.

0">was seeing spirits and there was a dark spirit like attacking him and making him do all <span data-t="3634.

6">of this crazy shit. And the Warrens got involved and urged them to go to the public, <span data-t="3641.

7">you know, go to the media, you know, get the word out on this. Why? I don't <span data-t="3647.

0">know, because that just made things ten times worse. Because it can either go two ways. The <span data-t="3652.

7">media believes you, which 99% of the time they probably won't, and they just label you as <span data-t="3658.

8">a bunch of fucking crazy morons. And to make matters even worse, what they don't show you <span data-t="3665.

0">in the films is that there was a person, another tenant, living on another part of the house.

And they said they never encountered anything, they never heard anything, they never encountered anything. <span data-t="3679.

9">So that's like when I started looking into it, and I'm glad you brought up the Warrens <span data-t="3684.

8">because I actually wanted to talk about them. Is that it just kills the credibility of them? <span data-t="3691.

3">And in my heart of hearts, I want to believe everything that they say because I'm like <span data-t="3697.

2">a sucker for this stuff, you know? Oh, I am too.

Speaker 11:01:40

As a kid, I remember being told stories by my mom about Amnivale, and then watching the <span data-t="3709.

7">original movies and just being fascinated by the topic. I was like, oh my gosh. And then <span data-t="3716.

6">growing up and learning more about it and realizing, oh well, they got in over their head <span data-t="3724.

0">on their mortgage, and hey, this was a great way to try to get out of it. You <span data-t="3728.

7">just start learning more and more about the case, and you're like, something doesn't quite pass the <span data-t="3734.

5">smell test, and that unfortunately is the boat in which almost everything they were involved in wound <span data-t="3744.

2">up. Something just smells fishy.

Speaker 21:02:27

Yeah. Were they dealing with actual cases? I have no doubt that in certain situations, they <span data-t="3756.

3">were really like dealing with some fucked up shit. Like really, really strong entities. I've always wanted <span data-t="3762.

8">to visit their haunted museum, but I'm too much of a little bitch to go to places <span data-t="3767.

4">like that. Because I shared this story when I first came onto your show, I don't know <span data-t="3775.

3">what you want to call it, like a demonically infested home or something was there. And you <span data-t="3785.

1">pointed out that like, dude, this sounds like either it was oppression or obsession. And like I <span data-t="3794.

6">think that's another danger that people will expose them to when they go down this path of <span data-t="3802.

2">wanting to be a demonologist, dude. Like you are really exposing yourself, and it's coming from a <span data-t="3809.

0">person, and I always say this that if there is someone that can scientifically explain to me <span data-t="3815.

3">what the hell I experienced, and say, hey dude, like this is what it is, you're fine. <span data-t="3822.

1">Up until until then, you don't want to deal with something like that. And I dealt with <span data-t="3829.

9">something like that for about close to a decade. You don't want to hear the growls, you <span data-t="3837.

4">don't want to hear the footsteps, you don't want to hear the three knocks, you don't want <span data-t="3844.

6">to hear the calling of your name. These are all potential things that could happen to you <span data-t="3851.

1">if you go into a place and and say, I'm gonna be a freaking investigator and I'm <span data-t="3856.

1">gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, and you're doing it by yourself. Like, if you have <span data-t="3861.

1">genuine intentions to help people, that's great. But if you think you can just do this because <span data-t="3868.

4">you believe in yourself, like, dude, you're not fucking Goku. You're you're not a Super Saiyan, you're <span data-t="3874.

2">not trained by Whis. You don't have Ultra Instinct, you don't have angelic powers, you're not gonna <span data-t="3879.

8">be able to tackle something in a fucking martial arts tournament. That's not how this shit works. <span data-t="3886.

6">To me, it doesn't have to make itself known immediately. There can be little bits and bobs <span data-t="3895.

7">here and there, little instances of shit going wrong for you that could be attributed to that. <span data-t="3903.

6">Now, people can say that's just bad luck. But if you start seeing a correlation that, hey, <span data-t="3909.

5">I've started fucking with this shit, and then after that point, things started going wrong. I think <span data-t="3916.

9">that's your telltale sign to probably go and get some help and understand that hey, maybe this <span data-t="3923.

1">not be if this is probably not for me. I'm probably not supposed to be in the <span data-t="3927.

7">front lines. I probably shouldn't be going around looking for haunted objects or creating my own haunted <span data-t="3935.

2">museum or anything that's of that sort. But like I said, hey, if you like doing that <span data-t="3942.

5">stuff, whatever, that's fine. You know, you you're allowed to do that. But I I just to <span data-t="3950.

5">me, like, you know, I I've come across so many interesting people doing this podcast, and you <span data-t="3957.

2">hear a lot of different stories, some From my really good friends. I just recently, like a <span data-t="3963.

8">few episodes ago, it might have been episode 44 or 43. I had a great conversation with <span data-t="3973.

0">the folks from Saw Paranormal, Alex and Shane, and Alex, a psychic medium, and I believed her <span data-t="3981.

2">because as soon as we finished the show, the first thing that she said, she's like, What <span data-t="3987.

0">I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go cleanse myself. We had an interesting conversation about demons and <span data-t="3992.

3">the paranormal. It's like important for me to do that. So someone that like takes those steps <span data-t="3999.

1">to me are legitimate. I'll I'll end my rant.

Speaker 11:06:43

Go ahead. The first time that I had a conversation with Father Bertzong, and he told me <span data-t="4010.

6">that before he walks into a potential exorcism, he takes part of the sacraments of the church, <span data-t="4022.

1">including the act of confession, and then after the fact, he does the same thing to cleanse himself.

I'm like, okay, I'm dealing with someone who actually knows what's going on. And I would <span data-t="4036.

9">say that's probably my last point, and that is don't go opening doors. And this can take <span data-t="4049.

8">any variety of forms. Don't go bloody messing with Ouija boards. I did an entire episode about <span data-t="4058.

9">that, how that is a really, really bloody bad idea.

Speaker 21:07:43

Another topic I had listed that you kind of just segued into, which is brilliant.

Speaker 11:07:53

So I interviewed a lady who goes by the moniker, the demon folklorist. And we had a <span data-t="4081.

4">good conversation. I think the way that she phrased it's probably the best I've heard. And that <span data-t="4087.

6">is not every doorway is going to have a demon behind it. But the more that you <span data-t="4095.

5">open, the greater the chances is that this is your unlucky day. And I would entirely agree <span data-t="4103.

0">with that. Don't go messing around with idiotic fad-like magical rituals like the Three Kings game or <span data-t="4114.

4">hide and seek by yourself or stupid crap like that, or the black candle ritual, things in <span data-t="4123.

0">which actively invite horrible, horrible things into your life. Why? Because you're bored? Because you you <span data-t="4132.

2">know you want to get the crap scared out of you? Well, all it takes is for <span data-t="4137.

0">that to happen, and you're gonna be wishing that, oh my god, it really should not. I <span data-t="4141.

8">should not have ever done this. Because death is just one possibility, but having everything that you <span data-t="4152.

1">hold sacred, taken from you, and yet still being alive, that is a real bloody distinct possibility. <span data-t="4162.

8">And I say this stuff not to scare people, it is simply to inform. Whenever you are <span data-t="4170.

5">dealing with the unknown, you do not know what you will be getting yourself into. And I <span data-t="4177.

9">know that dealing with the paranormal is exciting, it is sexy, as the Japanese would say is <span data-t="4188.

0">you know, walko walko, it's you know, very exciting. But it's also rife with dangers, it is <span data-t="4197.

0">stuff that can severely screw with your life. Even just having a podcast that talks about the <span data-t="4205.

8">enemy has caused me more troubles than I can count. If I had to do it again, <span data-t="4214.

3">yes, I would, because I have made some phenomenal connections through it, some really phenomenal friends. <span data-t="4221.

4">Chris is a prime example of that, and plus, I think that I am providing an educational <span data-t="4229.

4">service that isn't really found in so many other places. I think that in our Discord we <span data-t="4237.

3">have built a really nice, friendly community that's only have ever had two people banned from it, <span data-t="4246.

2">and I'm very quick to make sure that everything is fine. You know, we only have a <span data-t="4251.

3">few rules and everyone's respectful. But but I knew what those risks were when I was getting <span data-t="4259.

5">into it, and I did not kid myself that oh, you can't even just talk about these <span data-t="4266.

1">things and get away scot-free. There's always going to be a price.

Speaker 21:11:11

Yeah, I I completely agree. And I, you know, creating this podcast, like for me, it <span data-t="4277.

3">wasn't more so to do like an episode like we're doing now of like, you know, warning <span data-t="4283.

5">people that of the dangers you could potentially encounter. My whole motivation, well, it started off <span data-t="4290.

4">taking on like controversial subjects, but it quickly morphed into I kind of experienced something, and <span data-t="4297.

4">you know, people around me didn't believe me, you know, you get called crazy, you get labeled <span data-t="4303.

8">all of this type of crap, right? And for me, it was for a platform, an open <span data-t="4308.

6">platform, for people to come on and be like, hey, this is a safe space to talk <span data-t="4313.

1">about, you know, what you experience with the paranormal. And I'm glad that it's kind of morphing <span data-t="4319.

1">into like what Southern Demonology did as well and is still doing, which is informing, trying to <span data-t="4326.

2">be informative while keeping it interesting at the same time. Exactly.

Speaker 11:12:12

Yeah, and I would say that you can still trust what I'm putting out there because yes, <span data-t="4339.

4">while I do have a Patreon group, which is extremely small, I make zero money off from <span data-t="4347.

9">my podcast, even though it's been around since 2017. I'm not chasing clout. I mean, I love <span data-t="4356.

6">it when audiograms or videos happen to go big at some point, but I'm not doing this <span data-t="4364.

1">for shock value. I'm not pushing out large academic information and the you know, the hopes of <span data-t="4373.

4">making a name for myself. And I most certainly am not doing this to hear my own <span data-t="4378.

6">voice because I hate the sound of my own voice, which is ironic considering the amount of <span data-t="4385.

3">time that I spend editing every episode and I'm forced to hear it over and over again, <span data-t="4389.

9">God help my soul. I think that might be my punishment enough for doing this podcast. But <span data-t="4396.

7">if I had a financial gain in all of this and I was making hundreds and thousands <span data-t="4402.

3">of dollars, then that would be one thing, but I am absolutely not. I am a poor <span data-t="4409.

0">man who is just doing this for the love of the topic and the academic interest that <span data-t="4416.

2">I have in it.

Speaker 21:13:37

So Yep. And I echo the same sentiment, man. It it's just fun to do, and it's <span data-t="4423.

4">just fun to talk about. And like we said in the beginning, folks, if you made it <span data-t="4427.

6">this far, you're awesome, and we love you. But it's just a conversation. And from JJ's perspective, <span data-t="4436.

1">it comes from a well-rounded and highly educated individual on this topic. So and it's just our <span data-t="4445.

7">opinions.

Speaker 11:14:06

And Chris, from a very lived set of experiences that cannot be discounted.

Speaker 21:14:16

Yeah. As much as I ask and I want them to be, I always say, and I'll <span data-t="4461.

6">reiterate it again, if someone can debunk it, please. I'd rather it be debunked than it be real.

Because retrospectively, like if you think back to it, it's like, holy crap, I actually lived <span data-t="4477.

6">with something like that, and it's not fun.

Speaker 11:14:40

You know, and I think this is one of the things that really kind of separate us <span data-t="4487.

0">from all of the random conspiracy theorist yahoos that you find on TikTok or YouTube or anyone else.

We don't subscribe to every idea that is out there. We don't hop on the latest <span data-t="4504.

6">trend, start talking about the door in the mountainside that's in Ohio, or the giants that happen <span data-t="4511.

6">to live on top of a mountain that was saw in Canada, or any of these other <span data-t="4517.

0">or you know, going over of ancient archaeology or you know, aliens cause all this shit. No, <span data-t="4523.

6">no, no. I am still firmly in the camp. And I think, Chris, you share the same, <span data-t="4529.

0">but you can educate me if I'm wrong. That extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Right.

Speaker 11:15:37

Anyway.

Speaker 21:15:38

Yeah. I'm a flat earther. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I would kill you. But JJ, this has <span data-t="4547.

1">been a fun show.

Speaker 11:15:48

Yes, I we've had this really appreciate it.

Speaker 21:15:51

Yeah, we had this conversation plan for like almost two months now. So glad we could <span data-t="4557.

7">finally get it on the books and get this recorded. Amen. For those of you listening, this <span data-t="4564.

7">will be released on both platforms. So on The Wandering Road and on Southern Demonology. So for <span data-t="4572.

8">my listeners, JJ, where can the people find you?

Speaker 11:16:16

They can find me on southerndemonology.com. I have all of the links to all of my <span data-t="4584.

3">various platforms, whether that be Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Discord, Patreon, all the rest of it, even Podchaser.

But yeah, you can find links to episodes, but I'm also on every podcasting platform that <span data-t="4602.

4">there is, whichever one you choose to use to get your podcast episodes while you're there. And <span data-t="4608.

6">you can also email me directly through the website or at southerndemonology at gmail.com. And for people <span data-t="4617.

6">that came from my podcast to yours, where can people find you, Chris?

Speaker 21:17:03

Oh, absolutely. If you want to reach us, if you would like to be a guest on <span data-t="4628.

0">the show or you would want to share your stories with us, you can reach us via <span data-t="4632.

8">email at twroadpodcast at gmail.com. We highly encourage people to come on because we love hearing stories <span data-t="4642.

0">and people sharing their experiences. No matter how far-fetched it may sound, we always have an open <span data-t="4648.

6">mind over here and we're willing to talk to anybody. We're also on Instagram at TWRoad Podcast. <span data-t="4656.

4">You can find us on TikTok at TWR Podcast. And we also just started up a Facebook <span data-t="4664.

9">page, which you could go ahead and give us a follow if you search on Facebook the <span data-t="4670.

6">Wandering Road Podcast and give us a like on there. And you can always interact with us <span data-t="4676.

2">via messenger on there as well. Cool.

Speaker 11:18:04

Thank you for listening to Southern Demonology. Find us online at Southern Demonology.com, which offers links <span data-t="4692.

9">to all of our social media and episodes. Southern Demonology is solely owned, produced, and edited by <span data-t="4701.

1">myself, and the intro and outro music are composed by me as well. If you have a <span data-t="4708.

2">moment, please rate, like, and share this podcast, as it is the best way to help support <span data-t="4715.

2">my work. As always, I am JJ, and it has been a pleasure to speak to you today.

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