Are you interested in angels, demons, ghosts, spirits, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, tales, and influence upon history and on the present day? If so, then sit back, relax, and welcome to Seven Demonology, the podcast that explores all of this and more. Hello, all. Welcome back to another joint episode by the wonderful people at The Wandering Road. And me, JJ, your friendly neighborhood ancient demonologist, as we are here to talk about demonic sigils. And yes, it is sigil, not sigil. Very different word. It's sigil. It's sigil.
Don't make me come through the screen and hurt you.
Yeah, can you tell us about the demonic sigil of Zozo?
There is no demonic signal sigil.
He messed up his own way up. We got him up. Yes.
We knew it was you know, uh, I'm going to admit something embarrassing. When I because I've got an episode coming out on that goes through like the in the particular ins and outs of sigils and what they mean and if they're relevant, etc. And I was recording the video, and I was like, is it Sigil or is it sigil? And I thought that maybe the more like I'm typically wrong. And I'm like, okay, maybe it is Sigil. And so I use Sigil throughout that entire bloody recording, and then realized that no, I was right the first time. It is sigil.
And I've had now I have to go back and re-record everything because I screwed up one word. So it made me feel lovely and important. Yay.
See how many mistakes dude. Yeah. That happens. You know how this episode episode came about? He like barged his way into our I got a text message. You recording today? I'm like, yeah, if he's available. I'm like, why? He's like, well, because I want to join, basically. So kind of strong armed us.
I I was very polite. I just said, Hey, are you recording today? And I said, What are you talking about? And he's like, I don't know. And I'm like, okay. He's like, hey, you want to come talk about sigils? And I'm like, Yeah, I I guess.
That's not how we're remembering it.
I got the textual proof, bitch.
It's all fabricated by AI.
He's got the sigil to prove it.
That would be accurate.
Okay, let's define sigil first because when I heard sigil, I kind of had an idea of what you guys were talking about. But for people who like me who don't exactly know, here's the official definition. A sigil is a symbol, mark, or glyph often created to represent a specific personalized magical intent or of invoke a spirit. It's derived from Latin sigillum, meaning seal. So it's basically a seal, not like an animal seal, but like you know, a stamp seal.
Um, they are used as tools to focus energy, to protect, or manifest goals, but they can also be utilized for more nefarious things like like we're gonna talk about um calling forth demons. So there there could be there are people who see sigils as positive good things, and then there are other people who see them as a tool for like conjuring evil stuff. So that's in a nutshell, that's sigil.
I I don't know why you had to clarify that it wasn't the animal.
Because you know why? Because because I watched Spirit It Away, in which did you guys know the like the little Easter egg about that? Like when they did the translation work from Japanese to English, they mistranslated seal as like the little black, they thought the little black thing that came out of the old witch's like document or whatever that was binding the dragon kid or whatever, like and it came out as like a little black slime thing that had to be crushed.
The uh the translators thought the American translators thought that it was an actual seal, like the animal, as opposed to like a stamp seal. So that's what popped into my head as I was describing that.
I did not know that. That is very interesting.
Yeah, that is interesting. So I love spirit away. If you ever run a come across a demonic seal, you don't you don't know if it's a stamp seal or if it might summon a seal.
Have you guys ever seen the videos of like seals like popping their heads out of water and they look terrifying? They're so funny. There's yeah, there's like a type of seal that looks terrifying when it's sticking its eyes out of the water, it looks like some kind of evil mermaid or something like that.
You're talking about manatees?
It's uh I'm gonna look it up while you guys are talking and then I'll I'll send it to you guys. But uh it's it's it's crazy. Hold on.
I do know of uh the goat species that it's bloody terrifying to look at. Yeah, yeah, the one with the more neck, right? Yeah, it's tall and has loose jowls and oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh god, those things just look wrong, and the eyes, goat eyes are just creepy. I mean, goats in general are great animals, but yeah, their eyes are definitely weird. So I don't know if y'all can see this on camera or not.
Oh, yeah.
So these are just some of the demonic sigils that people claim are real.
My question is, where did this come from? Like, what's the origin? Is it just linked to like Christianity or does it go back to ancient Judaism?
That's the thing. So there is no basis for sigils anywhere in ancient Judaism, Second Temple Judaism, or even later Midrashic. So this comes strictly from the Christian side of the house, but have y'all ever heard of angelic script? Can't say that I have. Nope. Okay. Uh, it's supposed to be the alphabet that the angels themselves wrote in. There are a lot of different examples and variations of this throughout time.
The earliest versions are literally just Hebrew characters with circles at every line ending, so it doesn't look like anything much, and that evolved over time until you come to the Middle Ages essentially in Christianity, where you have all of these magicians writing grimoires, and there is one in particular called Alfred the Magus. He had a 16th or 15th century manuscript in which he came up with this idea of using zodiac symbols and to represent angelic names. What's the name of the movie series that the first one had, Christopher Walken, who played Gabriel?
Oh my god. Um I know you're talking about a car off the top of head either. The prophecy.
The first one was an absolutely fantastic movie, and in fact, it started a several year investigation for me because there's a scene in which the people walk into a cave and they see this writing up on the wall, and it's all this angelic script. I didn't know what it was, and so I went to all of my professors, even went to like several other professors that taught other languages, was asking them.
They didn't know, and I kept digging into it until like three years later at Harvard, I finally found a reproduction of that manuscript by Alfred the Magus and found the exact characters in which it was referencing, and then later found out that my college has the very first edition of that stored on campus. I'm like, why? Yeah, it was just a weird kind of turn of events.
So, anyway, within medieval grimoire writing, there was a definite trend of using these astrological sigils, sigils to represent divine or infernal beings, and that is where the origin of these particular seals come from because they look, at least to modern eyes, they almost look like circuit diagrams, right? They look like they are mysterious and powerful, and that they hold the keys to whatever infernal creature that they're supposed to be representing, but in fact, they're nothing.
I mean, unless you take like these medieval manuscripts, like the lesser key of Solomon, um, unless you take those to be accurate representations of the metaphysical world, you're barking up the wrong tree.
So I'm gonna take a educated guess here or speculate and feel free to correct me because I know nothing about demonic sigils. So that's kind of why I brought up the topic too. Is the assumption that you would scratch this sigil somewhere in the effort to summon whatever infernal or non-infernal being that it's associated to?
It is supposed to give you power over the associated entity. It could be used in a lot of different things, but nowadays you'll find them on Etsy printed merch more than you will anything else, which is just so sad and pathetic. It's not even remotely funny.
Yeah, because you mentioned the lesser key of Solomon. Is it an assumption that this is supposed to replace the ring of Solomon in which the ring is supposed to control all these demons and stuff?
But now that that's lost or still on his hand, as I guess the the story goes, um that that's what you would use now to Yeah, it's supposed to represent knowledge that has been lost and was supposedly recorded and kept safe within this very what's purported to be ancient book is actually extremely modern in nature.
So gotcha. So is this more of like an in-theory type of thing, or is this something we would encounter? I don't know. I I'm it's just an open question that you know have priests encounter this during exorcisms, like people like the possessed drawing demonic sigils. Just to put it this way, is this kind of like cosmetic dlc that doesn't absolutely do anything?
The idea of a sigil is still used by apparently the strange YouTube videos that I stumble across late at night. It's still very much a part of modern magical practice, although people will kind of sit down and do much more free-form things where they're beginning to doodle, and at the end of the day, that it's supposed to be a sigil that will then help them in whatever they truly desire. I don't know, I don't subscribe to that kind of thought. I think it's rather idiotic in nature, but my opinion doesn't really mean all that much in the end, and I freely acknowledge that.
However, to my knowledge, and I've done a lot of research on this, there has been no official linkage between possession and or exorcism to these particular symbols that have been you know recorded within uh medieval grimoires that came out of Europe at the end of the day, they've garnered some more attention. Like, for example, have y'all watched the TV series Evil? Can't say that I know it's actually a pretty good show. Um, me it as long as you don't take anything that it says as uh actual like theological or stances that the church or any religious denomination may make.
It's kind of like the X-Files how you know they had cool stories, but every single thing that they had about it was bullshit. I mean, based upon zero research whatsoever. Evil is the same way, it's a really good story, it has some compelling characters to it, the ending was absolutely rushed and atrocious, but there is some good stuff in there. But at the end of the day, there is next to no research poured into any of it, and so don't take anything that it says to be even remotely true. Anyway, I'm getting off topic.
Uh, in the series, there are these various demonic houses, and uh they're all represented by a sigil, and so you would see like this you know map of sigils uh that they some some ancient group supposedly had put together, and all of these houses are being uh denoted by them, and you know, there's a rush to try to kill the houses and blah blah blah.
I don't want to give away too much of it, but yeah, sigils are you know, they've come to represent, oh, these are the true embodiment of these infernal beings when they're anything but they are symbols that people may have found to be uh effective within certain magical uh systems or symbolic uh rituals, but now people have taken them out of context and they're literally making merch out of them, whether it's t-shirts or rings or hats or whatever it may have you be, and then you know, claiming that, oh, uh look how much I know because I'm I'm purporting I have the symbol here.
In fact, if there's a lot of really bad content on YouTube that's talking about named demons, and they'll sit there and always have their sigil deplay uh displayed on the thumbnail of the videos, and every time I see it, I get so bloody pissed off.
And like I had an episode all about determining a methodology for how to think about named demons, and then I wanted to do a subsequent show to talk about sigils before I get into actually talking about specific infernal entities, but it was just that really that irritation I would fa I would feel at seeing these symbols trotted around and people not really understanding what they are.
I kind of want to go back for a second to the historical context of sigils and ask you if you are familiar uh familiar with uh I don't know if I'm gonna butcher the word, but apotropaic. So like a apotropaic is like a magical protective um seal that has been found over millennia of um, you know, even all the way back to like animism and very, very old structures of human religion.
And I'm wondering if if you've heard of that and those types of symbols, and do you think that that was a precursor to sigils, or is it is sigil completely different from these protective magical seals that used to come uh from older human religions?
I would it's a good question. I would say that they're uh they're not directly inherited, but I I would say that they're definitely heavily influenced. Uh, because you have everything from simple barriers that were typically drawn in salt, you have like Aramaic water bowls, which could either be used to control, I mean, to bind entities to keep them away from you, or to summon them, depending upon who you talk to. I've got a two-part episode on Aramaic water bowls, if you ever want to um, if y'all want to take a listen to that.
So, this idea of circles and barriers or summoning have been around for probably as long as we have. These things definitely inherit and borrow from that. Uh, whether it's trying to trace a direct lineage or not, I doubt that the authors or inventors of this idea thought that seriously about it. But yeah, I mean they they play upon very similar concepts.
So I was looking at some of the sigils, and I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but like the one for uh Lucifer, one of the like the drawings look like items from the Yu-Gi-Oh!
show it does, it and that's because those are astrological signs that are just being strung together.
That reminds me of like when parents were saying when we were younger, like Pokemon is the devil, like yeah, I know.
It's a sigil for evil, like this right here is supposed to be the sigil for Gabriel, okay, or Gabriel, the mighty man of or mighty warrior of God. And here's another one that's also supposed to be the real thing.
Is that supposed to be who?
Supposed to be Gabriel, okay, but they're just astrological symbols that are strewn together in random ways that people or some you know then think, oh my god, that's really what their name is, and in like this in the universal language of the universe, and no, that's not how that is. It's just astrological symbols strung together.
Going off of that, I also looked up, I came across the sigil of Baphomet, and I found it fascinating that this particular symbol that it kind of like incorporates the I forget the technical name, but like the upside down star and five-point star, and then there's like the symbol of the goat in the middle. And um, I feel like this is the this is probably the sigil that like most people are familiar with, um, because it probably shows up in horror movies or whatever. Like it's like, isn't it the cover for the Church of Satan or something like that?
But this this illustration, the the sigil according to Wikipedia, was created in like the late 1800s, so it's not like some ancient, you know, long-seated uh evil thing that's been around for millennia. This is like literally created within the last few hundred couple hundred years. So I thought that was oh yeah.
And that's the thing, like the the range of grimoires that came out of Europe can range like anywhere from 12th century up to the 19th century, and none of them are based in you know major theological thought or anything, it's just these old white dudes that were sitting there trying to summon crap in their basements.
I mean, I don't like goats, let's put it in the sigil, but that that that's is this is where I'm struggling, JJ. I understand the concept of it, the theory behind it. But if it's not present in anything, did these folks in the Middle Ages just kind of make this shit up, throw on to the theology?
Kind of. Um, and that's where I bring up the idea of angelic script, because there has been a thirst. In certain circles to try to find a language of the metaphysical. Yeah, there has to be something in which the raw force of life itself is written down. And that's where this idea of angelic script came from. That maybe the angels have their own way writing and transmitting information which is so much more real than human language could ever be.
And you find this reflected as the exact same principle, but inverted when it comes to the infernal, because the infernals are supposed to be angels, so they would still have that same uh set of communication principles. But what if we could use their language against them by defining it within this universal language? It's just so bad that the people that were writing this grimoires, the only thing they could come to think of is oh, it has to be astrology symbols. That's the key to the universe. So that's a leap.
That's a leap.
Yeah. So like I looked up an angelic script, I can't remember the guy's full name. I think his full first name is Heinrich, but his last last name is Agrippa. He comes up with this angelic script in like the 16th century, I believe it is. How would one know what that even begins to look like if it is a thing? Because you're just putting shit together. You get where I'm going? I'm like, what I do. What is the what is the church stance on this when all of this came out? Did they view it? Or you may not have the answer, they may have no stance.
Did they just view this as like what the fuck are you guys doing?
Pretty much like me, and this has been around since Second Temple period days, this idea of angelic script. And actually, the people that are purported to have developed it, they normally have really weird monikers, like something the bewormed, something the curse, something the the horrific. They never have pleasant names, the the the creators of these particular systems. It's never been officially denounced that I'm aware of, but in no way, shape, or form has it ever been endorsed or even tacitly acknowledged that the existence of these things are out there.
Who's the new Pope? Pope Leo.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Hey, hey Pope Leo. Can you come out and say this shit is stupid? And I'm not knocking you for like being interested in this topic whatsoever. I'm just viewing it from the perspective of what we do with our shows. And taking this stuff seriously, you know, we we've talked to people that have had demonic attachments, some have had exorcisms, stuff like that. You've done consultations, and not once in any of those stories that Dean and I have covered, or the people we've talked to, not once did the concept of a sigil come up.
Now it may be different from you. It's it's a little different for me. Okay. I I had one case, one consultation that I did, in which the individual that I was speaking with, and I can't give a lot of details, and it's not just me being evasive, it's because I I swore to keep all of this private.
Just general overview. We don't need to know any personal information.
Yeah, the basic idea is that this individual had encountered something that could not be explained. And upon hearing all the details, I fully believed that it was demonic in nature, and they kept running across a particular symbol every time that this thing would be acknowledged. That is the only time that I have seen any kind of linkage between an actual case and a symbol, but it looked nothing like these things did here within you know the appropriate repertoire. I think that was more of a one-off.
And my final word when it comes to sigil sigils, goddamn, still doing it, is that you know they've been taken by Hollywood and they ran with it because it looks some of them look really interesting, some of them look cool, and they can even you know embody some mystery to us when you look at it, you're like, what am I looking at? Oh, that must be really old and ancient, and therefore it must have power, it must be so cool, and blah blah blah. They do have that kind of visual punch to them. I will not deny that by any way, shape, or form.
However, they're pretty recent creations, we're talking about like 15th, 16th century at the oldest, they come from Europe, so and you know, nowhere near the Middle East in which things were supposed to have started from. And at the end of the day, they're just astrological symbols that are strung together. If any individual people out there put any stock in them, that's because you have put stock in them, not because they have any meaning divorced from the ritualistic or magical systems in which they were invented into.
I sent you guys a link in the private chat. Take a look at it. There's a conspiracy theory that just I was reminded of during this that the uh it's called the cool s. And if you're a millennial, you probably immediately know what I'm talking about, even if you've never heard the term the cool S. But it's um also called the Stussy S, the Super S, the Slipknot S. This is funny because there's this conspiracy theory that the reason why millennials know how to write this or draw this S or like figure it out is because it's subconsciously ingrained in their entire generation for some reason.
And I just it's the reason it popped into my head is because like that's kind of a sigil, like or could you could be like conspiratorially, it could be taken as uh as a sigil, and um, I don't know what do you guys it's probably I mean, I know it's bullshit, but it's still fun to talk about. It's fun to talk about because we know about it, it just looks cool.
All of this kind of reminds me of that idiotic woman who I don't know, five years ago came up with the conspiracy theory that the claw marks on a monster can oh was six six six. Oh my god, was actually three uh three wows, or if you pronounce it in modern way, three vulves, which can be a six in Hebrew if you count it, so it would be six six six.
It was the biggest bullshit in the world, but it was friggin' hilarious to listen to that idiot ramble on about I mean, not even considering the the uh concept that you told us about in previous recordings where for episodes where you're talking about how it might six six six might even be misinterpreted as the actual demonic number is six one six, right? Like there's like there's not even consensus on the number.
Well, and the reason why is so the text in which that comes from uh Revelation, it is in Greek, and it's actually a name, Neroon Kassa, Nero Caesar, and then they took that name, uh transliterated it back into Hebrew because that was the native or uh that was the native or Aramaic or the native language of the writer, and because they spoke Greek as a second language, as most Christian writers did, and then they took that the numerical value of that to turn that into 666. But uh, whether you have an olum in there or not uh would subtract from the value, so yeah, it's either 666 or it's 616.
Neuro 616 says I just whipped your ass. Stone Cold reference for people that don't that don't know.
Yeah, I I only yeah, only old us old folks would know. I I'm older than you are, and yeah, I I liked wrestling when I was you know eight years old and didn't know any better.
So yeah, I was eight when Stone Cold was at his peak.
That came after me. I was at the Holt Colgan, Randy Piper, Rowdy Piper, but okay.
Rowdy, rowdy piper. Yeah, I still remember.
You might not have been young enough at the time, but in Chris is in my generation, I think there were Chris. Maybe you're too young, actually. Um, but there was like when I was growing up, there were these dolls that were huge for a child, and there's wrestling dolls, and like you weren't cool if you didn't have like a WWF wrestling doll that you bring to your friend sleepover, and you guys like throw around on the floor or something.
Just beat the crap out of it. Yeah, no, I know what you're talking about. Um, but JJ, before we end, I want to go back to one thing. Um, when you were talking about that case, now you don't like I said, you don't have to go into any details or anything like that. But you said this person saw a particular symbol anytime they have an encounter with this entity. So now does that give the concept of those symbols or sigils any type of validation?
But the one caveat is that we have them documented incorrectly, that there is some form of sigil or character or something that can reference said inter infernal entity that was plaguing said person, but we just don't really know what it is, and these people back uh five, six hundred years ago were just kind of making it up, but they were kind of on the right path. What they have documented is just wholly incorrect.
I'm leaning on saying no, it is an interesting idea, but you would have to there's a couple of assumptions that you would have to make in order to get to that particular conclusion, you would have to admit that there's something that goes directly into the metaphysical and into you know truth with the capital T, and that would escape language in order to do so. Two, that there's a way of representing that underlying reality in some sort of drawing or writing system. I'm not saying that's impossible for the first one to be there.
I I do think that it would be the second one is a really far stretch in my imagination. Now, if you believe in magic, then I guess that would mean that you believe in the first. Is there a way to represent that thing? Um, I mean, the only other possibility is that you believe that to name something is to have power over it, and that a sigil could be the same thing as a name. I don't think so, but then again, I don't believe in magic. So I would say no to all of that.
You don't believe in magic, interesting.
Not particularly. I know I've got many a friend that that does, and I respect them and their beliefs, but I don't believe that there's a thing that can tap into the fundamental forces of the universe, or at least I don't haven't seen any any um any evidence of that.
That could be another topic of discussion later.
Yeah, I mean what are y'all's opinions?
I don't know.
Chris believes in magic.
Do you believe in magic? No, I can't. I'm not going to come out and blatantly say I'm gonna say I don't and that's what I should have said as well.
Like, I I can't say that I'm not gonna be the the atheist and go, oh, there's no way that could exist, blah blah blah. I haven't seen any indications that it could exist, I don't have any strong leanings one way or the other. I'll put it that way. I just haven't seen anything that would convince me otherwise.
You know what I will say? I I think that I'm in the same boat as you guys, where I don't know if magic is real or not. But what I do think is likely is that humans themselves don't inherently hold the capability to exercise magic, even if it's of their own free will, it always comes from some other additional source that is required as part of that magical process. And so, like, it's not really the human doing it. If it is happening, it's like something on the other side.
So that goes back to Chris's point about well, if these entities are like starting to utilize these markings, these sigils that didn't originate with them, but they're maybe they're just being picked up as like a human-created tool to get what they want to get done in our realm in the same way that someone like, oh, I want to do this magical incantation. It's not actually the person like using magic in their own body to manifest these things that weirdly happen.
It's gotta be like from some other third-party source that is seeing the human trying to conjure it, and either conjures like its own source to manifest what the human wants, or it's got its own like desires to do something on like that it that's you know what I mean? Like it's doing something for itself, the entity, as opposed to actually doing it just for the human's sake, whether it's good or bad.
No, I I get what you're saying, Dean. From that perspective, it's not really the person doing magic, more so whatever entity, you know, trying to get them to believe, you know, like, oh my god, you're doing it, but no, I'm actually just messing with you type of thing. But again, I take the stance of I don't, I don't know. I never really looked into it. You have people that come out and claim that they do magic, they do white magic, black magic, blood magic, you know, witchcraft and stuff.
Like, I mean, there are people that are self-professed witches and they do certain things and it seems to work for them. So does that count as magic? I I don't know. Um, I think it just depends on your view.
Um I mean, we do have direct conversational evidence of the church of Satan, the high priestess, you know, performing rituals of destruction within whatever you know inner sanctum that they happen to have had. Uh, you do have people that you know claim that manifesting, you know, wishes or desires can lead about certain things. And God knows, even from just southern traditions, you have a lot of things that could be considered magical, from hanging up, you know, blue jars from trees in order to scare away ghosts, even to using biblical prayer in order to heal people.
So you get a lot, a lot of gambit stuff, and I can't say that none of it's real. I mean, my gods, you've got entire classes of Hondur and Bokur from Hudouism that you know there's some stuff that's effective there, so I can't say that there's not.
I think this is a really good episode, and I learned a lot, but I do want to queue us up for possibly a new discussion next time. That I stumbled across this um concept in Christianity just doing research about sigils, and I I just wound up on this page. I don't even know how I did because it's not sigil-related, but apparently there is a belief structure or a doctrine that is called serpent seed or dual seed.
And uh, I don't know if you've ever heard of that, Chris or um uh JJ, but it's basically it says the doctrine of the serpent seed, also known as dual seed, is a controversial belief in some fringe Christian Abrahamic religious movements that interprets the fall of man as the serpent is the one that mated with Eve in the Garden of Eden, and the offspring was Cain, and it goes down that rabbit hole. And apparently, this is this position uh is as old as like circa 180 AD. And I don't know I I think this fascinating.
Like, I have never heard of this, and it I guess it's kind of fitting into the Gnostic herist Herecratic or heresy belief. It says uh Valinidius in 100 to 160 AD was the one who labeled it as uh evil or espoused it as heresy, but I had never heard of that like Gnostic approach to the Garden of Eden is like you know, the devil is the one that made it with Eve, and that's how you got Cain. And I I don't know, that's crazy, right? Like, I never heard of that.
I've never heard of that, but you get a lot of weird, weird shit from Gnosticism.
It reminds me of the grimoires, like, there's just so much spin-off to like people thinking about well, what could this really be? And then they come up with their own ideas, and it's kind of like a religious comic book series where, like, oh no, I think he had three arms. No, he only had two, and he had the power to spit acid. No, he no, it was actually super strength, you know, it was like kind of like that.
There's definitely a lot of fan fiction in in the world of Gnosticism and other I mean, a lot of it's pseudopigriphal as well, so it's like modern day people drawing a comic book and then claiming that Stan Lee is the one who really drew it and they found it in the late 60s, and right I remember yeah, that's how yeah, I remember what I was gonna say.
So you brought up, and this is the last thing I'll say before we uh wrap it up. You said something with like southern magic and the satanic temple, and it just reminds me of those episodes with Arc Bell where he talks to like that lady that was involved.
That's exactly what I was thinking, yeah. Yeah, but it's not the satanic temple, it's the church of Satan.
Church of Satan, I apologize. Please don't sue a satanic temple. Um, we're sorry for the mix up.
They've got damn good lawyers, so that yeah, they do.
Yeah, we're sorry for the mix-up, but we have nothing to sue anyway. Yeah, I know.
Amen to that one.
But what I was gonna say was the concept of manifestation. I think that's a real thing, but not in the way that most people believe. That they think that if they think hard enough about this all the time and they talk about it, and you know, you say your affirmations, it'll appear magically. No, I think the way that it works is that you shift your mindset to manifesting what you want. And what I mean by that is let's say, JJ, you want a new a new car, right? Or a new house or something, something uh uh akin of that.
And if you go in with the mindset that, okay, I see this car on the lot, I'm gonna go to the dealership. I don't know, maybe I'll get it. I don't think I'll get it. I don't think they'll give me a good trade in. I don't think this, I don't if you go in with a lot of doubt and a lot of negativity, you are manifesting negative that you are going the answers you're going to give to that salesman when you have that conversation are predetermined by your mindset because you are focusing on what you can't do at the moment.
But if you go in like, I've been looking for a car like this for like six months, this is exactly the make in model that I want. This is the year, this is the mileage, it's in the price range, this is what I have to put towards it. I want this fucking thing. If you go in with that mindset, to me, that is manifesting. Because when you go into that situation, you already have that mindset. Like you are subconsciously prepared for those conversations. You are subconsciously prepared to walk off, drive off that lot. Not walk off that lot, drive off that lot with said vehicle.
So it's a preparation of your mind and your subconscious to get what you want, as opposed to like Dean, we make fun of it, five million dollar man, five million dollar man, and then you just expect someone to fucking pop up with the briefcase. That's not how that shit works.
Not with that attitude.
Right? Yeah.
I mean, attitude goes a long way, but I will pose a quick little devil's advocate thing here. If our thoughts are based upon quantum weirdness within our brains, and if that quantum weirdness can represent the fundamentals of reality in some strange way, and if we focus those things into a particular outcome, is it impossible that we could actually manifest things directly? I I don't know. I don't think so, but that's the only way that I can see that attempting to manifest things besides changing your attitude to towards something to actually affect reality itself.
And I can't say that that's not true, but I also see no evidence for that.
You can kind of tie that back to sigils too, right? Like from a degree. Like, oh, I believed the sigil is gonna do XYZ, and you're already putting that in your mind, so maybe uh the manifestation of those outcomes are less reliant on the sigil itself and just the fact that you drew it or you put it on yourself or whatever.
I mean, it's all placebo, right? Just to help interest your mind push you forward. I mean, Dean, you and I have gone on runs for multiple tim multiple times over for years running together. And we get to a certain point on that run where it's like my legs are fucking killing me, my hamstrings are are shot, I'm cramping everywhere, I have like a half mile to go. Do I walk the rest of the way? Or mentally, do you g up yourself like fuck it? You you create something in your mind to just push through to get yourself over the line. To me, I I know a lot of people, that's how I view manifestation.
It's using your own mind to help you push forward when you need it. And if you think that fuck, I can't do this, I can't do this half mile. God, I'm gonna tear my hamstring, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. You're gonna be more focused on the negative aspect as opposed to fuck, if I don't get to this finish line, XYZ is going to happen. We know it's not gonna happen, but in your mind you're trying to trick yourself like I gotta do this, I gotta get it done.
So I know people who view it in a magical aspect, but from like fucking reality, physical reality of things that we've done on the jogging trail and lifting and all that stuff. That that's just how it makes sense.
Sure. So everyone, thank you for listening to all of this. I think that we covered the broad basics of what sigils are, how they came to be, how they're being used today, and at the end of the day, how asinine at least the people that attempt to put them on merchandise have turned them into being. So as always, thank you, Christine, for having me. And if you would like to tell my listeners where they can find you, yeah, sure.
So you can find the wandering road on every podcast platform. We are on YouTube and on a visual medium. So if you like video podcasts, go check out the the wandering road on YouTube. Uh like, subscribe to the channel if you want to share it with other people that you know. And if you would like to be on the show or have any questions or comments or suggest any topics for discussion, we can be reached at twroadpodcast at gmail.com and give us a follow on our socials on Facebook, just search the wandering road.
And we are active on Instagram, TW Road Podcast, or just search the wandering road, give us a follow. And if you want to message us there, we love interfacing with the community. And for you, JJ, where can my listeners find you?
Uh, you can find me on southerndemonology.com. Listen to all of our episodes, but we're also on every podcasting platform. We do have video episodes up in case you want to see this lovely, beautiful face and body on your screen um on YouTube and on Spotify. And otherwise, yeah, you can reach me at the website in order to contact me or to learn more about our socials, etc. And if you want to see the other end of JJ, go to his uh OnlyFans page. That would be accurate.
No, he does not have an OnlyFans.
I only have one, I only have one subscriber so far. Cheering you on. I'm so proud of you, JJ. No, y'all are sharing the account. I know you're too cheap to pay for it individually.
Oh man. All right, folks, we hope you enjoyed today's episode. Tune in for the next one.
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