Are you interested in angels, demons, ghosts, spirits, and monsters? Are you curious about their origins, influence, and how to protect against the unknown? If so, then welcome to Southern Demonology, the podcast that explores all of this and more.
Hello. Hello, and welcome back to Southern Demonology. This is, as always, JJ, and once again, we are joined by Father Michael Birdsong and his son Deacon Josh, who at this point is the most invited back guest I have ever had on the podcast, which I am tickled to death about. How are y'all doing today?
Oh, we're doing great, and it's my pleasure. I think it's tickled that that I was able to come back. So uh uh I think we're kind of both on the save same wavelength there.
Well, I feel blessed, and I really appreciate y'all joining to do this. Today we're going to be talking about a few different topics, which we've covered. I've covered a portion before. We have all together talked about a portion. In fact, it was in last season where in the last of the two-part episodes, this was actually the season finale of season three, where we talked about the case of Paula. Is that correct? That is that is correct. Okay.
So we're going to get kind of an update as to what happened, and then we are going to launch into more than likely a spoiler-filled conversation about the movie Nefarious, which I also covered at the end of season three. And in fact, if y'all did listen to that episode number 13, then you'll know that it was actually Father Birth that suggested that I watch this movie, which was off my radar at that point. So I owe major thanks to you because that was truly the best movie about demonic possession that I have ever seen.
Right. It was it was I I have to say it it was mine too. We can get into that as as the conversation leads, though.
Exactly. And in case y'all did not know, both Father Bertzong and Deacon Josh are regulars on the other podcast that I do, um, that I am a part of, and they are now as well, as permanent members, and that is the Paranormal Rundown. It releases now twice a month. It used to be just once a month, and there we cover over 1600 different topics in rapid fire session and with the occasional guests, sometimes it's just us, but we have a phenomenal time with that. And if you have not listened, highly urge you to do so. Much more of a longer format show than what this one is.
But with the amount of banner that we have, I think that you can really feel the camaraderie between us. And you get to me, it's always been, I think Victor has always said it, it's lightning in a bottle, and I completely agree with that. Absolutely. Yeah, it's just such a good time. And I I think that our joy comes across, and hopefully you feel the same level of joy listening to it. How are you found being on the rundown, Father Burke song?
Uh I want to say it all started maybe a couple of years ago when Josh became a member of your Discord. And he kept talking to me about it. You need you need to get in this group and you need to you need to join in. And I said, Why, Josh? And he he said, Well, you'll just like the conversations. So finally, one night he drug me into his room very unwillingly. I sat and listened to a uh podcast. And then I said, Okay, I like that. And then I think you actually invited him to discuss one of our cases. Yep, sure did.
I believe that's how it all started, because when I heard the episode that Josh did with you, I think that's when I reached out to you and said, Here's some things that were not talked about. And so I think then I was invited along with Josh and it just kicked off from there. I believe that's right.
That you got it, exactly. And how have you enjoyed being a one of the crew of the rundown?
Oh, it's it's phenomenal to me. I I it's amazing to me that when we start an episode or any kind of discussion, two hours passes by in like five minutes, it seems like to me.
Yes, it does.
So I mean I I really enjoy it, but but you said a key word camaraderie, and I really feel that as well. So I I I believe it's a great group of guys. I think we all have one common goal. I think we're gonna grow from there. But to me, me personally, of who I am in my background, I'm glad to see that all the podcasts are safe places. And uh when I mean safe places, I mean we don't bash somebody else for their idea of something.
We may not agree with them, we may not agree with whomever we're talking with, but we can agree to disagree and everybody shares uh what I call their golden nugget and we get the point made.
I completely agree with that. Uh we not only do we try to approach any topic that either we are discussing or that someone else brings to us with a completely open mind, but we we do not thrive on negativity, we don't thrive on hatred, we really cherish every guest we've ever had and each other. And I think that's just a wonderful thing. In fact, the one thing that I am so proud of Southern Demonology about it's not the money which has been actually a non-existent. In fact, Southern Demonology podcasting in general, it's more of a expensive hobby masquerading as a second job.
There you there you go. I sink more money into this than I have everything you probably will ever see. However, the money's not important. And the one thing that I never really envisioned when I started this venture seven years ago is the level of connections that I have made with people in the Discord, with uh other podcasters, and we've kind of created this unified framework where you know I've been able to meet you, been able to meet Josh, uh, Vic, David, and most recently Chris and Dean from The Wandering Road.
And we've kind of all formed this giant conglomerate, and it's just it's been amazing to be able to witness and experience that. I agree very much so. So rather than talking about another podcast, let's get back into this one here. There you go. When we talked last, you had mentioned about a particular case that had been the most difficult of ones that you have ever experienced. And you gave the individual the codename of Paula in order to help protect her privacy, which we always take extremely seriously. What has happened since the last time that we have talked?
Well, this this this is a very hard topic for for me today because uh because we all want things to happen happy with rainbows and unicorns and live in a fairy tale world for the rest of our lives and everything's gonna be okay, but that's that's unfortunately at times that is not the case.
Well, especially in this particular case, because you're dealing with a soul with another human's life, and you always want the best for every other person that's involved in the situation. So, yeah, continue, please.
No, I I I totally agree with what you just said because although although in Hollywood there's always a glimmer of truth to any exorcist movie, it may be a crap movie, but there's always a glimmer of truth in there somewhere. And being an exorcist, it is it is not a glamorous thing. And see, that's the first and foremost thing that everybody needs to understand. And because we are dealing with the soul of a person, and any any priest or exorcist or deliverance worker, if they want to call themselves that, it's not the action that they're doing.
They need to understand that they are caring about a person's soul and saying, not today, not on my watch, I'm not gonna let the enemy have it. And secondly, it's not about the exorc exorcist, it's about Christ. And that's and and deliverance. So uh I I I totally agree with with what you just said, but the case is I'm not gonna say it's over, okay, because the door is always gonna be open. I don't give up, but there has to be some things that need to be done before you can help anyone, you know what I mean?
Let me let me remind you of in the gospels that do you remember when the disciples went out and and Christ gave them authority to to heal the sick and and do the work of the ministry, and they came back and said that even they had authority over the demons. Okay, but then then something happened, and I forgot which two it was, but they they had a hard time.
They couldn't they couldn't drive the demons out of a demoniac, and they questioned Christ on that, and Christ said, and see, sometimes I think this scripture is only taken one way, but Christ said, these only come by prayer and fasting, right? Well well, of course, the person in the office, you know, they need to they do need to take time to take care of themselves emotionally and spiritually. I'm I'm all for that. There's sometimes that you need to spend some serious time in prayer and as well fasting.
But yeah, because the priest is the ultimate attack surface for whatever invading host is there. Let me actually ask you this before we go any further, because I'm really curious about this. What personal attacks, whether it be physical or spiritual or mental, have you experienced in as your role as an exorcist?
Yes. Personal, spiritual, emotional, physical, financial, you name it, I have I have I've been attacked. Um, I mean, even even attacked physically one time by a I I bet this person didn't weigh but 120 pounds and and took me down like a football player. And as you can tell now that we got video, I'm not a little boy either.
So that's not in common.
I mean, I I'm I'm glad that's the point where I'm glad Josh was there because he was he was there to to help in that matter. We've had people um curse us, not just me, but my family. We've had very emotional battles while uh while while being in the midst of a session, not not in the midst of a session itself, but during a time period where set where sessions were going on, we were, I mean, we were biting each other's throats and fussing and arguing and carrying on, and finally it hit us. I said, Whoa, wait a minute. We don't we normally don't do this.
So I had to stop and back up for a minute and say, you know, the enemy's trying to attack us emotionally where we can't do the work of the kingdom. And so uh that that took care of that real quick, and it it will open your eye to some things.
Yeah, because I mean that brings up a really good point. It's not only you, but it's also any assistant that you've had in that process, that they are also opened up. I know in Father Malachi's hostage to the devil, oh yeah, he warns that anyone in that room is likely to have slanderous things thrown at them, to ignore anything a demon says, and to never engage in conversation with the demon itself. I agree with that.
I agree. But back to the case, uh you know, I I I did say that this was the hardest one that I've ever dealt with. There hasn't been a lot of Hollywood drama in it, so to speak. It's been more, it's more, it's been more mentally and emotionally as as well as spiritually. But back to the pressing prayer and fasting quote. There's times that we're dealing with cases where possession is taking place, but but there there's moments where the person affected can have a time of clarity, right? So it you can't say that this person was perfectly possessed, right?
Because because she she still she can still carry on a conversation, she can still be cognitive, but then she just disappears after a session and then goes back home, and then all hell breaks loose again because she's not doing what she was told to do. So but the prayer and fasting part, I believe, that it also comes on the person that is affected. They have to, if they are cognitive enough to carry on an intelligent conversation with you, it all boils down to their attitude of being willing to let go of things. Does that make sense to you? It does, yeah.
And so that that that discipline, it may not be prayer and fasting per se on their part, but that's just something that hit me that they have a part too, because they're still acting under a free will.
If they fall back into the hole, then unless they're willing to climb right back out of it again, there's not a whole lot you can do to wrench them from it, I would imagine.
Uh, you know, that is that's that's 100% correct. And so, and so what this what this particular case boiled down to is she was so affected by the uh possessing spirit or spirits, and I believe we talked about some of them before, especially with uh Lilith. And uh, but you have to be willing uh to submit yourself uh to spiritual authority. If I ask you, do you want to be free? and you tell me yes, well then you need to submit yourself to that authority and take start taking responsibility on your side of the coin and doing some things that you need to be doing.
She uh I I think Dave and I had a conversation about this as well. She had a bag of dolls that she, like little stuffed dolls that she carried around everywhere with her. Those were her quote unquote friends. Now, does that not raise a red flag to you?
It absolutely does. In fact, and not to go cross-cultural here, but Ningil are dolls and Japanese, they can often be viewed as substitutes for a human body and carry the same uh negative type of uh pertinatural or supernatural attacks that anything else can. They can be the perfect substitute because of their human-like form. And in fact, their entire Shento temples dedicated to eradicating and destroying these dolls and which happen to be under these types of Nidoi or curses or tachi dati, however, whichever type it is.
But yeah, no, dolls are freaky, and to hear someone who is suffering from this type of oppression to be carrying them around as friends, that just sends chills down my spine.
Well, not only were they her friends, she said that they were a part of her ministry tool. Now remember that she got involved in this.
I'm gonna say Christian cultic activity of deliverance, not knowing what they were doing, and that's how she became affected. Right. But but but she said she said these dolls were her friends, and she even named them names of the people that she knew. And she would pray with the dolls. But see, here here's here's one thing is kind of when you asked have I been personally affected or my or my family. Well, she came to church one time, well more than one time, because my wife was nice enough to go get her. And then she wouldn't come back anymore.
But uh, but the whole time she would be there, she'd be very, very disrespectful. She couldn't stay too long around any holy object or anything. And she would would wander outside and walk around the property with her dolls and stuff. And I had to tell one of my deacons, you need to go out there and get her and take care of business. She's causing the scene, and I'm not gonna have it in here. Yeah. So that's that's number one about submitting to authority, any any kind of spiritual authority she does not want to submit to.
But she even she she even said that I got dolls for y'all and and I pray for y'all. Ding ding ding ding ding. I said, okay, no wonder I'm having such physical pain. Oh my god. No, no wonder a weak spot in my body has just exasperated to times where I can't stand anymore. And so, yes, we we can be affected. But when I told her that she had to get rid of those dolls, oh buddy, she blew up. But then it was not her, it was the demonic inside of her speaking through her. I'm not getting rid of my dolls, blows to, I mean, just went just went crazy.
And so uh, but here's here's here's the point of the whole matter. You got to get rid of your idols. And if you've got the conscious effort and you still got that little bit of free will, you gotta make a decision to do it. If not, one of one of the biggest things that we gotta understand, and I I I tell people this all the time anything or any person that hinders your spiritual lifestyle away from God is a is a God to you, little G. And that's that's basically basically where she stands. She has become codependent on the demonic.
And she is, I hate to say this, and like I said, I will not give up. The door is always open. She is a breath away from perfect possession, in my opinion. And unfortunately, right now, there there's there's nothing I can do.
The the one thing that I'm not sure if people truly understand is that the infernal makes a deliberate mockery of the divine by imitating it. In fact, the key word in which they call themselves is the kingdom. Just like how you refer to everything from your church as the kingdom, so do they. And the fact that they can masquerade as something as profound as that. It is you know, there's a dialectic between the divine and the mortal. There's an inverse dialectic between the infernal and the mortal as well. And there's a third overlapping one that goes between the divine and the infernal.
Yeah, that it is heartbreaking to hear. But yeah, I mean she if she's unwilling to completely relinquish, it's kind of like Augustine saying, Yeah, Lord, save me, but not yet.
Where the rubber finally met the road per se, is at our very first session, Josh correct me if I'm wrong. This went on about three months. Okay. I told her then and I reminded her each time you have to come here. Here be in the church. Because I I've I've told you I've told you all before, I'm a firm believer that if it can be done in the church, that's where it's gonna be. You know, no questions asked. I mean, this is way this is the way it's gonna be. So where where everything finally went downhill is uh she became very adamant that I come to her home.
Now, once again, I told her from the beginning, we're gonna do it this way, we're gonna do it here, and then and then when when when you are free, then I'll come to the home and we'll bless the home. Well, she didn't want it that way. And and she she kept saying, why, why, why, why? I said I said, I said, because I am not gonna meet the enemy on his ground. Exactly. If I leave my kingdom, just like you say a while ago, to go to that kingdom, what did I just place myself into? Yeah.
I mean, I I'm I'm I'm not even bringing harm on myself to to make maybe I might be defeated, but I gotta I gotta I gotta shepherd these other people with me too. And so I'm not I'm not gonna I'm not gonna encroach on the enemy's ground to become weak, because that's exactly what would happen. Exactly.
And so and and that and that's that's why a lot of the I I hate to say this word, JJ, but that that's why a lot of the true demon possessions, they don't like the sacraments or the sacramentals of the church because of who because of who it represents. Correct. So yes, can yeah, yes, can God do anything outside of the church building? Yes, he can, but that's also the reason why after just just about every well after after every miracle that Christ performed with the lepers or the demoniacs, he said, now go show yourselves to the priest order, once again.
That's part of the reason why I thought an affairs was so cool too, because he he tried to get around that order many times. But anyway, I'm sorry, I I didn't mean to go down that rabbit hole. But if someone has the ability to have a normal discussion and make decisions about their life, they have the free will also to say, yes, I want this thing gone. And deep down, I don't think she does want it gone. I believe she's codependent on it.
And unfortunately, uh, like I said, I I I believe she's not only a hair away from perfect possession, but I believe she's even entering into the medical side of schizophrenia now.
As a reminder, can you go over why she initially reached out to you in the beginning? Oh yeah.
She got involved many years ago. And uh she she went to this uh church organization, and and before she had any teaching, before she had any uh uh coaching per se, uh any great strong personal relationship with God, she wanted to be part of their deliverance team. And they they they let her. And that's why I said in her in one of our earlier shows, if you grew up in the charismatic world in the 80s, and just because you read Pigs in the parlor, it does not mean that you're now an exorcist and go cast out demons. Right.
But she would go to these situations, and because of the way things were being done, it not it not only made things worse in that area for the people they were trying to minister to, but it but it started making things real bad in even in her own life because she was not ready, she was not prepared. She just wanted to be one of those cool people that can cast out demons. Right.
And so she started having terrible, terrible nightmares. She started having very strange physical ailments. She became like a hoarder of all kinds of objects, like the dolls for one thing. But the biggest thing is she was she started having terrible dreams, and she would actually hear these things speaking to her and telling her to do certain things that, of course, she knew was wrong, but she she wound up yielding herself into the demotic. She oh she opened that door and tried to take care of herself. Well, I've I've done this, I've done that, I've done this, and and so on and so forth.
And then one day one of her friends called out to me and said, can can you meet with her? That's how it all began. We had we had several meetings. Of course, you know I won't jump into things right away. I want to I want to make sure that I'm dealing with possession and not mental illness at that time. Right. But the opening doors, and I I I know we talked about that many times in in a lot of our shows. We keep going back to that idea. But that open door, if you're not spiritually apt to close that thing, you need to leave it shut in the first place.
Well, especially if she was participating in these deliverance teams with no training, no firm spiritual house in order. That's like casting a lamb into a lion's den.
Well, that's like one time I asked her, JJ, and I said, Well, who's your who's your pastor? Dead silence. I looked at her friend. Where'd she go to church? Where's her group of believers? Well, I don't have a pastor. What? Well, once again, refusal to submit to a spiritual authority. People want to go off and do their own thing. I don't I don't I don't mean to run down this road, but but if if if if if the kingdom of God did not want order and order in our lives, well then why in the world would he tell Moses to build the tabernacle of the meeting? Makes sense to me. Yeah. I just it's sad.
It's sad. I mean, like I said, I I hope it's not the end. My family and our church we pray for every Sunday. Uh I pray for it daily, but I can't beat a dead horse to death if it's already dead.
Very true. Actually, speaking of opening doors, is there a reason why the door behind you keeps opening and closing? My dog. Okay. I was just making sure I was like, that's a little freaky.
Well, it well it well, it freaked me out a while ago because I I I saw it in the video and and thought I heard something, and I turned this way, but my dog ran that way, and I said, What the I looked at Josh, what the hell's going on? Oh, Thor came in. I said, Oh, okay. I thought I I thought I thought that EVP was about to manifest itself over here in my house.
Yeah, speaking of that, we uh you caught an EVP in your own recordings, is that correct? Vic caught it, and I'm like, okay. Yeah, and it was uh I certainly can't explain it. It was um a very chilling sound. Can't make it out what it says, but it did sound awfully close to uh Azazov, not that it was, because it was actually a hard swallow on the very last syllable, but it it was that last swallow that that got me. I'm like what was that? In fact, I I think this might work. Let me see if I can if you don't mind, I can play this here. Okay. And it should come through, I believe. Let's see.
He's playing it thing. Yeah, that last swallowed syllable was just eerie. Who knows what it was, but this is not the first time we've had strange VPs pop up on any of our recordings, and now it seems to be a lot more prevalent. I haven't encountered it in SD yet, and I hope to goodness that I don't.
So well, what what you just played it through, it did sound like Azazol. But but I want to say listen to it one more time and and see if at the very beginning, if it doesn't have a R consonant sound like Razazol. Sure. One second. Razazol.
It definitely sounds like an A to me.
A? Okay.
But I I could be wrong because I can't make out if it is intelligible or not. So it's really anyone's guess. And I have no training when it comes to deciphering EVD from other people. So I won't even claim that I do.
Yeah, Josh, he's he's been he's been working on it a lot today, forwards and backwards, slowing it down, trying to catch different parts of it.
And anyway, it is strange. Yeah, in fact, let's uh let's play the backwards version because we have that too. And the backwards version does seem to start with an N R, but yeah, it's it gives me chills every time I listen to it, so I have no explanation.
Uh yeah, I said I said, oh well. I said uh I'll go to battle over the internet ways too now.
Oh well, that is truly disheartening to hear, and I'm I'm sorry to hear that the case did not have a better ending. And I know there's always hope for further down the road, but at least for now, it seems to at least come to an unsatisfactory and really undesired conclusion.
That's part of the reason uh why I think this last episode on that matter is so important is because I uh the way our group is, we don't want to put on any airs. And I wanted the people to know as a I'm not trying to call myself a I'm the true exorcist because there's many just like me that knows more than I do. I'm not the smartest kid in the room. But we have we have foolish people out there that think they can run out and do something, and number one, they're gonna get harmed. But what I'll but also our listeners need to know, you know, sometimes it doesn't end well. Why? I don't know.
But I do know in in this particular case, it came down to order and authority. And you got to be willing to get rid of the idols in your life. Now, yes, there's cases out there where people have just about lost all their free will, and but that's when friends and family are going to have to step in and ensure that things keep going. Correct. And unfortunately, throughout the year, she's come to the point where she doesn't have anybody except one friend. However, that's where we stand on it.
Sounds like I I would imagine that in certain cases, I mean, rarely it's not a Hollywood movie where it's you know one you know, one simple session of exorcism and things are magically resolved. It takes time. And the more time that occurs between sessions, the more openings that you have. And in this case, it seems like Yeah, I mean it was just there were so many chinks in the armor that after a session she would go back home, which still was wide open, and she just fell back into whatever pit that she has, you know, begun to consume her to begin with.
You know, and and that's another point that I that I just remembered that I failed to bring up. No, it is not one and done sometimes, probably most of the time, but you gotta be willing to come too. If if if if we meet today and we set up a meeting next Monday, I expect you to be there next Monday, not wait three weeks or things get bad again and then come back.
Right.
And so I was dealing with that too. It the the it was so inconsistent. It's hard to keep things in order.
Well, I will I will say a prayer, and not that I'm thinking it will have any effect, but it certainly can't hurt any, I guess you could say. Absolutely. Thank you for listening to Southern Demonology. Find us online at Southern Demonology.com, which offers links to all of our social media and episodes. Southern Demonology is solely owned, produced, and edited by myself, and the intro and outro music are composed by me as well. If you have a moment, please rate, like, and share this podcast, as it is the best way to help support my work.
As always, I am JJ, and it has been a pleasure to speak to you today.